micro bevel to eliminate tear-out -Spyderco Paramilitary CPM-S110V

[Marc H]

Of the two Shapton stones, the more expensive, Shapton Glass Stone sets are my preference.  The same eBay guy made those sets for me too.  He also made me several other sets of other brands of whetstones.   I haven’t used all my different whetstones sets with enough of a variety of steels types to be able to correlate steel hardness with a preferred brand of stone set for that steel.  So far, if I had to choose just one favorite stone for all-around use it’d be Shapton Glass Stones.  When funds have to be more of a consideration the Shapton K. Pro Stones are the second choice.  These Shapton stones are “splash and go” stones and much less messy to use then whetstones that require soaking before use.

I prefer to use whetstones to diamond stones in most instances for sharpening my personal knives.  They’re more steps involved to use the non-magnetic whetstones. They’re somewhat messy and more time consuming, to use them, too.  The whetstones cut faster, cut smoother and with more consistency in their scratch patterns.  They can be used well with all steels.  Even the new high-tech, super hard powdered, high-speed tool and crucible steels.  Whetstones do wear away and are consumed as you use and maintain them.  Even still, I just prefer the results.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Henry]

To Shapton glass or not at this early stage of my journey. That is the question. <i>Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous outlay, Or to take arms against a sea of  perhaps troublesome steels, And, by trying the Glass, have another tool to try.</i>

Lol, ok, I’m leaning towards using my diamonds on sub 61 ish Rockwell steels and the Shapton Pro Kuromaku for a while on harder thin Japanese knives and gaining experience before plunging down beaucoup de dollars on the glass.

But, I’ve been reading and seeing vids on Shapton glass for probably decades as I’ve enjoyed 30 bench whetstone, I’ve never had the experience with them and somehow feel this may be the calling.

That’s all. My post dinner rabble du-jour.

[Zamfir]

I too have been having trouble with my 110sv Spyderco.  Never been able to make it push cut sharp.  I know my stones are broken in lol.  Been forever since I posted here. I am glad to see Tom and Mark posting!!  Those 2 helped me so much in the past.  Turns out that s110v is very finicky with heat treatment. I will not go into the details of the metallurgy transformation. That can be found on Knife Nerds.  If not done just so, it can be nice and hard but create a devil of a micro burr. I have tried grinding off the edge flat with 1000 grit perpendicular (removing the apex) and sharpened only edge leading (stone above edge and down into it) as to try and not create a burr at all. I think it still does somehow.  400 is as low as I go.  I believe I am seeing micro burrs in a few of your good scope pictures.  This is the only steel that I have not beat yet in over a decade of using the WE sharpener.  It will get shaving sharp. And it will not stay sharp for very long.  I need to get out the microscope!  I had been using a nice stereo microscope at work to check it often as I use it. So if it is not a micro burr, then it is micro chipping.  I use all diamonds. 17deg each side.  If it is micro chipping, I will start to add a 20deg micro bevel to see if that helps.  That is what I had to do with my ZDP blade.   Thanks for the thread and pictures!

[Zamfir]

I looked over the pictures again and it looks like there is a micro-burr in almost all of them because of how the light is coming off the apex. At that magnification I do not think we could even see carbide tear out can we?  A carbide is small. We can see chipping and maybe the tear out you are seeing is the micro-burr torn off.  The left circle was a chip at one point and looks like it was never fully removed.  But the rest all look like micro-burrs.  Which I have not figured out how to remove on this steel.

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[srenovo]

After years of trying to sharpen tools and knives and reading about how to sharpen and trying out so many ideas and methods – I have discovered that I don’t know a lot.  That said the author of scienceofsharp.com says that WE can’t do a good job with S110V.  He is in the process of publishing a three-part article on his website about sharpening S110V.

scienceofsharp

As for 50/80 stones for reprofiling – I have an old Tormek that I inherited for reprofiling/nick removing chisels and plane blades – then I use WE to finish.  But that’s just me and I am spending my children’s inheritance because they are far more successful than me.

 

[Marc H]

These newer and newer steels alloys are being devised. Their extreme hardness does present sharpening challenges. I don’t think the issue is with the sharpener used. I think it’s more about the sharpening mediums and the sharpening technique. I’ll admit I don’t have a lot of experience or opportunities to sharpen these newer high tech steels found more commonly of high-end edc and folding knives. When I do sharpen very hard, brittle and chip prone steels I do have good results using whetstones made for W.E.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[srenovo]

Somewhere in this thread one of the authors talked about sharpening plane blades.  For an interesting technique look up Rob Cosman’s videos using Shapton glass stones to sharpen.  Finally, if there is any interest I will post a picture of Shapton stone holders that I had a local plastic fabricator make for me based on my understanding of WE stone geometry.

What I am not so sure about is how close to a certain angle setting does one have to get to sharpen nearly perfectly and how quickly can one sharpen a blade to near perfection.  Too bad there is variation in WE stone geometry.

[000Robert]

srenovo wrote:

After years of trying to sharpen tools and knives and reading about how to sharpen and trying out so many ideas and methods – I have discovered that I don’t know a lot. That said the author of scienceofsharp.com says that WE can’t do a good job with S110V. He is in the process of publishing a three-part article on his website about sharpening S110V.

There are some Wicked Edge haters out there and I don’t believe any of them. I have to deal with them occasionally. But diamonds are diamonds… One of these days I’ll get a blade made with S110V steel and sharpen it up very sharp with my Wicked Edge. 👍

[Lawdog]

I find this thread fascinating and pretty much, well above my comprehension.  It’s just another example of how much I don’t know.  Lol.

[Author]

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