SalisburySam
@salisburysam
active 4 years, 1 month agoForum Replies Created
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Welcome to this forum and good luck with your purchase decision.
I agree with Marc’s advice and add a thought: before purchasing, think about your sharpening goals. All WE systems will give you a pretty sharp knife in a relatively short time. But if you want something beyond that you might consider something more than a basic system. For example if you will be sharpening a lot of knives for yourself and maybe others, the Gen3-style clamp is faster to set up than the older style. If you have Japanese-style kitchen knives, the Low Angle Adapter could be a helpful add-on, etc. Don’t get paralyzed by this but since you’ve been sharpening a long time, you have the advantage of knowing what results you’re seeking. I didn’t have your experience and my only goal was sharper kitchen knives. I found I could get there with only stones up to 600-grit just fine. However I bought the ProPack2, added some more stuff to it, and while massive overkill for my needs, I found sharpening relaxing and ended up with a new mini-hobby I enjoy a lot. And I don’t stop at 600-grit anymore but go through 1500-grit and the 6-micron diamond lapping papers.
In retrospect, I probably would have been wiser to get a simpler system and put the cash difference into Bitcoin futures, but then I wouldn’t enjoy the experience as much.
Let us know what you decide, and please share you sharpening suggestions from your experiences.
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Thanks for showing the results of your work here. This is quite inspirational for us new WEPS sharpeners. Like to see more.
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I admit that, upon first reading of this thread, my eyes glazed over and I saw little applicability for my own limited sharpening experience with WE. I’ve gotten to the point where I can get a very sharp edge on my kitchen knives and that was my goal when I bought my WEPS. But then I see other threads as well as this one that could be very useful to me in the future. My current state of knives that are happily “much better than before” will over time become “not quite good enough” and that’s when I’ll re-read and possibly apply these more esoteric subjects to my own practices.
I understand how these topics COULD turn off potential buyers by implying a necessary and undesired level of complexity. However, I believe most of us novices would view this thread as a process tweak to get to another level of expertise and better results as opposed to a requirement for even basic sharpening. On the other hand, topics like this one demonstrate how advanced and innovative thinking can improve the process and maybe the overall system design…good things I think.
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The many helpful replies to Clay’s original question are dead on IMO, and I won’t repeat them again. Interestingly to me, I learned two things not mentioned yet:
1- my stable of kitchen knives, even those professionally sharpened, were just incredibly dull by WE standards. Since acquiring and using my PP2, food prep is very much easier, more enjoyable, and significantly faster than I could have imagined. I know that is not really a tip or technique, but it was quite an eye-opening fact for both my wife and I that we hadn’t anticipated.
2- all of the wonderful techniques to achieve a WE edge come with practice, analysis of results, tuning your techniques, and more practice. That said, even the very first knife I sharpened with WE immediately became a far more useful kitchen tool than almost all other of my knives, despite not having any WE experience whatsoever. When adopted and applied, the tips and techniques from this forum and the experts who contribute to it just keep making the experience and results better.
In summary, from day one you will get a very sharp result on a knife, and with the help of this forum, videos, the Knowledge Base, and practice, the results will dramatically improve. Gotta luv it!
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Hello Jacob, and welcome to the forum!
Disclaimer: I’m one of the more inexperienced newbies out here having purchased my sharpening system March 2017. So if you get responses from the many users with far more expertise, weigh their input much more heavily.
Before going into details, I suggest you have some specific goals as to what you want from your knife sharpening system. By that I mean how many knives sharpened and how often (friends and family program, open sharpening business, whatever), how sharp do you want to get them (just to return to factory-new, make YouTube videos/podcasts on sharpening, use for display where super polishing might be desired, knife show quality, and so on. I believe the WE system can help you achieve any or all of these, but your goals will help you decide how many and which stones you want. In your comparisons with KME and other systems, consider the system and attachments needed for each system to achieve your goals, how much work will be involved, how likely the accuracy will be achieved, and lastly, as you become more experienced is there a need for system enhancements and are they available.
Some direct answers from my pursuits:
- I did not consider KME when I was reasearching, and know nothing good nor bad about it.
- You are working with a knife, trying to put a very sharp edge on it. So yes, there is always a risk of hurting yourself. That said, the Wicked Edge (WE) system is built to minimize the risk during the actual sharpening process. You do have to exercise care is setting up the knife, avoid reaching over the knife (for example, keep the sharpening stones on both sides of the knife, not just one side), and be especially careful at the tip of the blade not to bring the stones back toward you without first moving away from the knife plane. Also, WE sells gloves and safety shields which almost eliminate any cutting risk whatever. In my months sharpening about 30 or so mostly kitchen knives, I have had the good fortune to not cut myself sharpening. I have cut myself using the knives, but that’s a whole different thing.
- You said you’re looking at the Model 102. I think you mean the Model 120 which has the mounts, arms, and four stones giving you abrasive grit progression from 100, to 200, to 400, to 600. You can get one heck of a sharp knife with that set up, and you can keep it that way. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how previously dull kitchen knives are very, very much improved after the 600 grit.
- If you get more stones, I suggest the first addition be the next grit levels up, 800 and 1000. After that, I’ve been impressed with the edges I’m able to get using the new 1500-grit/glass blank stones. I use a 6-micron diamond lapping paper on the glass stones at the suggestion of several of the more experienced folks on the forum.
- Rather than buying two sets of additional stones, consider getting one set and the Field & Stream kit. For the additional $24 over the Model 120, you get the Model 120, a clamp, and a carrying case. Unless you have a place to dedicate to sharpening, a case can be very useful and it makes your system mobile.
A huge advantage of the WE system for me is that it is a system. You can expand it to achieve greater levels of sharpening, polish, do other things like scissors, chisels, short and long knives, and so on. This expandability is there to a wide degree. The concern here is to try to predict your near-future uses before your initial purchase. By that I mean you may see yourself needing everything that a ProPak (1, 2, or 3) offers, and the ProPaks will be the least expensive ways to acquire all those items.
OK, rant over. Good luck, and let us all know what you’ve chosen and more interestingly how you made that decision!
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Funny you ask, I just ordered this today: Hattori Sujihiki 300mm . A Christmas present to myself!
What a beautiful knife indeed! I’ve known no one who is in any way dissatisfied with their Hattori’s. Merry Christmas! And another dilemma: a new knife, or food for two weeks? Knife? Food? Knife? Food? Tough call.
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I’ve read a few posts about new users making decisions on what system to buy, so if I missed something out there that would answer my questions, I’d appreciate the heads up. I was close to buying a belt grinder, or maybe even a Ken Onion Work Sharp, but have been interested in this system for a while. I’m not a professional, nor do I have aspirations to make a living as a sharpener. I do however want a system that I can confidently put an edge on my small collection of pocket and fixed blades that I and my family have. I admit that I suck at stones, etc…so I don’t have much experience with sharpening. I want to know what system would best suit my needs to put a hair popping edge on my knives. Knives I would be sharpening mostly would be several sebenzas, benchmades, spydercos…bark river and other smaller fixed blades, and last but not least would be a new set of nice kitchen knives. What would be the best model for the money that would allow me to do this without spending money on niceties that are needed by pros? As the models become more expensive, are there any compelling reasons to move to these for the money based on what I want to do for the type of knives I want to sharpen? Thanks for the time and information/guidance.
TL;DR version: I suggest acquiring the 2017 ProPack2 with case, and after using it for awhile, add whatever you feel you need. This is a great balance of cost and comprehensive sharpening equipment.
Deets:
I’m not sure how you feel at this point, but you’ve gotten some great guidance from the more experienced folks who thankfully are active in the forum. I thought I’d add a bit about my sharpening journey to give you the “newbie” view.About a year ago I too was looking for a way to put a decent edge on a whole bunch of kitchen knives used daily. I’ve been through the Chef’s Choice top tier models of electric sharpeners, major suckage at whetstone sharpening, and the short-lived but positive results (mostly) from sending a knife back to the manufacturer for sharpening. What I learned from all that is twofold: manufacturer resharpening takes too long, is inconsistent, and may not be all that good, and secondly that I cannot hold a blade at a proper angle to save my life. That fact alone eliminated many of the market sharpening systems for me and steered me towards WEPS.
If you are like me, I like to learn how the products perform in the wild before committing. So I went through the website, joined and read this forum as you’re doing, and watched a mind-numbing array of YouTube videos. So I concluded I wanted a WEPS system. So now what? Wicked Edge and Bob Oldawan were both helpful in suggesting essentially the same solution for me: the 2017 ProPack2. It had enough stones to put a great edge on any knife I have, and even permits me to approach a nice mirrored edge, something I didn’t and still don’t think my knives need. The issue for me is that you don’t know what you don’t know going into this. You’ll want enough grits to accomplish the task, but how many is enough? You want a nice open space to set up your sharpening station, but I don’t have that luxury so needed a case for ad hoc setup and put-away. I had so many really dull knives I was spending a lot of time with the 100-grit stones trying to get the burrs established so I added the 50-/80-grit stones. I wanted to visually see the progressions of my techniques so added a loupe-style microscope (NOTE: skip this and get a USB one when you get to this point). I wanted to capture more of the knife filings so I added a couple of strong magnets wrapped in plastic wrap to both sides of the base making cleanup fast and easy. Most recently, I wanted to go for even more edge finishing so I bought (and really like) the 1500-grit/glass stones and fine diamond lapping papers. Then it dawned on me that not only do we have very sharp and effective knives in the kitchen, but I have a new mini-hobby. Sharpening is not a business for me, but it is both productive for the finished knife, and quite relaxing. And thanks to forum contributors, I keep learning trying to apply their guidance and suggestions to improve what I’m doing.
Like any tool acquisition, the more comfortable you get using the tool, the more likely it is you’ll find new and better ways to use it and that may just include expanding the investment. For example, hey, look what my new router can do for setting register grates even with my floor surface. But wow, look what I now can do with my plunge base, 3 sizes of collets, and the newly-needed dust shield that directly connects to my brand new 30-gallon shop vac. I think you get the picture.
Good luck, and please share your decision and experiences!
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One option for big birds or narrow ovens is to spatchcock, then divide into two halves at the breastbone. Put each half onto its own baking pan and onto two different racks in the oven. Even with a convection oven you’ll want to rotate the pans occasionally, but should cook up beautifully.
Wonderful thread! I’ve roasted chickens this way (spatchcocking/butterflying) for years since I learned of the technique from a cooking show. Love the way all the meat is done perfectly at once. But I never thought to use a knife to cut out the backbone; instead I’ve always used my Shun kitchen shears for two reasons: first, they are sturdy enough to exert a lot of leverage cutting through bone without any deflection and secondly, they come apart and can go into the dishwasher after cutting the raw chicken. That said, I have to try a knife next time given the success of cjb80202. Thanks for the tip!
Yes, Bob Oldawan does indeed sell WE today and it is from him that I got my ProPack2, case, angle measuring device, loupe, longer rods, and most recently the 1500-grit/glass handles and 6-micron diamond lapping films. Bob has been a delight to do business with both in sharing his experience and counsel, and in quickly and accurately fulfilling my orders. While his website Oldawan.com is pretty thorough, it is sometimes better to email or call for some of the smaller parts and accessories…chances are he’ll have them as he did with the 6-micron lapping film when WE was showing “out of stock.” For me, Oldawan is one of those highly-treasured vendors who through wonderful customer service gets my business every time.
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What a great forum! I too wanted to try the 1500-grit stones but have not yet used any lapping film, so this was a good chance to try this out. Thanks to the recommendations here, I bought and received my stones and 6-micron diamond films recently and tried them out on a Shun Santoku that was due for re-sharpening. My previous technique took me through the 1000-grit stones, then the ceramics and strops included in my WEPS ProPack2. This time I went from 200-grit quickly through the 1500-grit, fumbled around getting some experience with the lapping film, and have a knife ALMOST as sharp as I remember the previous sharpening to be. I’m guessing that as the 1500-grit stones get broken in, and my admittedly clumsy lapping film technique improves, that the sharpness will be indistinguishable from one technique to the other, though I’d welcome comment on this from more experienced folks (almost everyone else on the forum). With the 1500-grit/6-micron film, I think I can get by without the ceramics and strops, and just go through the diamonds and film.
Again, thanks to all who contributed to this topic…mostly helpful in my opinion.
I get that spammers are a problem and that the “I am not a robot” reCAPTCHA test addresses most of that. However, the form of reCAPTCHA in use is the most annoying of the many available, IMO. Having to select multiple of an item type, and then maybe have to select some more, and then maybe select some more never knowing when the selections will actually end is just frustrating. If it is really necessary to use the reCAPTCHA test at all, could we at least change it to something more definite, like having to type in two words from images? You either get them right or not, but at least you know that typing in the words is all you’ll have to do instead of a guessing game of selecting roads, cars, street signs, and the like. Just me probably.
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As a new WEPS user, I’ve tried to sharpen every edge in the house with the kit I have and the stones that came with it. After practicing on a dozen or so less-critical kitchen knives, I started with the few more-costly knives. Three of those are Shuns: a paring knife, gyuto, and Santoku. I had sent these recently back to the factory for resharpening ($9 fee for all 3). When I got them back a few weeks(!) later, I was appalled at the poor shape they were now in. They had less practical sharpness than when I sent them in, and all had been reground to something far different than original. In fact this experience was the catalyst for me to by the WEPS (2017 Pro Pack 2).
I felt I was ready to take on the Shuns, since they could not be harmed by me any more than the state they were in. So, armed with only the diamond stones in the kit I went to work on the paring knife. I began with the 100-grit, got my burrs after what seemed to me an excessively long time, and progressed through the other diamonds to the final strops in the kit. I was stunned at how well this knife sharpened for me, and encouraged to try the other two Shuns. The Gyuto and Santoku were in impressively bad shape and I purchased the 50/80 stone to shorten the time to get a burr. I was able to move to the 100-grit pretty quickly, get a good burr, and progress through the rest of the stones and strops quite well. The results were knives at least as sharp as I remember the originals being, and my wife (the primary Shun user), and I both are pleased.
I’ve not invested (yet) in ceramics or other materials, trying to maximize my WEPS investment for the 30-or-so kitchen knives I’ll ever likely sharpen. But to answer the original OP question: yes, you certainly can get great edges on Shun knives with the standard diamond stones.
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