Pro pack II set screws

[cbwx34]

Hey, I just got my first ever M390 too, 581 BM Barrage, love it, sadly it will sit in its box in my safe until I get some other things taken care of, but looking forward to seeing what its got when the time comes, and then of course what the WE can do to it!… From what I have read of M390, it should be a fantastic knife!!!

I’ve got one of those… did 17 deg. per side, lightly stropped with 5m leather which seemed to clean up the factory edge. Haven’t used it a lot, but seems to be working out well.

There’s also a post on M390 you might want to look at…
http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=5593&Itemid=63#5593

Post your results when you sharpen it!

Great knife! Easier to sharpen than I thought it would be.

[craftyhack]

I’ve got one of those(BM Barrage)… did 17 deg. per side, lightly stropped with 5m leather which seemed to clean up the factory edge. Haven’t used it a lot, but seems to be working out well.

There’s also a post on M390 you might want to look at…
http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=5593&Itemid=63#5593

Post your results when you sharpen it!

Great knife! Easier to sharpen than I thought it would be.

Wow, thanks for the post, the first thing that pops out is that beautiful edge, WOW. Now I have a nice, blog to read too :). Looks like M390 is everything I read it was. Def will post results.

[Phil Pasteur]

I appreciate the input on M390 and your experiences..
It will help me out on my new knife.

Or were you not talking to me ???

Phil

I’ve got one of those… did 17 deg. per side, lightly stropped with 5m leather which seemed to clean up the factory edge. Haven’t used it a lot, but seems to be working out well.

There’s also a post on M390 you might want to look at…
http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=5593&Itemid=63#5593

[cbwx34]

I was referring to the Benchmade knife.

[craftyhack]

BTW, I had a 300 baud Folksmodem that I used to dial into BBS operated by my buddies, to discuss Physics problems, I would have nearly killed for 14.4

Phil

This is completely off topic, but I believe I have found a kindred spirit where beyond the obvious love of this area, we also go way back together in computing. Since I couldn’t find a “Misc Forum” to put this in, I requested one in the suggestion box, but I wanted to reach out cos I don’t find many kindred old timers in the computing field in the blade and firearm forums :). Pics of my first laptop (1000’s of yards mowed), 300/1200/2400 baud built in, first laptop with HDD (20MB) built in, STILL WORKS :), cannot bear to part with: http://www.photobucket.com/mcrafts_NEC-HD , this will be passed down to my children as will a few special blades and firearm’s that were passed to me :). I would have msged, but wondering if there are others out there…

[Phil Pasteur]

Not sure how far to take this in this thread…

First store bought computer was a TI 99/4A. That was the first I had that I didn’t program with switches…
A whole 12K of memory for programs using A BASIC OS… ran programs from Cassette tapes. That was the one I got the 300 baud modem for… It was cutting edge then. It had a 16 bit processor:woohoo:

Later I got a real Ibm Pc with a 14.4 modem I had an account with a local university. I could use the PC to log into a UNIX shell and… access the Internet… and use email with Pine… a completely text based UNIX email program… Those were the days.

Phil

[craftyhack]

Those were the days.Phil

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, I can remember punch cards, Wangs, liquid cooled HDDs that one man could not lift, tapes, HUGE floppies, and on and on. The thread could go on a good ways down this path, but we shouldn’t take it there for the sake of those coming here to learn about the recall :), so I will stop and hope that perhaps a misc forum can be setup so we can move these posts and chat there :).

[Chris]

I discovered a temporary fix if you need it.

It turns out the upgrade kits with the wrong size screw also has a #8-32 hole drilled on the backside of the base.

So, if you need a little something extra to hold things in place,,,, I bought a couple of #8-32 x 1/2″ thumbscrews and stuck them back there.

Thought I’d pass it along!

Thanks cbw, you got me thinking.

This might only apply to me as I don’t wish to use the angle dimples?
But I like the idea of using two screws.

The principle of this set screw is to pull the opposing face against the angle bar to tighten.
So if I put a screw in the other side, it is working against the other screw.
Not a problem, as I’m sure it will still strengthen the hold.

It can’t help me if I don’t want to use the dimples, because I would be committed to a dimple on one side.
But if I don’t use the dimples, then I run the risk of my “L” bracket sliding.

So for a better hold, I either need a crossbar with no dimples (then use both sides) or I add another hole/screw next to the existing one for extra grip, which would be the best option as it grips further along the bar.

Sound confusing? 😉

edit – Of course I use a flat face screw in place of the original ones.

Would be good to have a couple of extra holes included so the option is there?
Another pic.

[Scott]

I don’t know how I could have missed this thread until tonight. Having read all the posts about the set screws not seating in the calibrated dimpled rod beneath the riser, now makes perfect sense why my angle cube is having so much trouble maintaining a consistent setting. This has really been kind of driving me a little crazy, but it now makes perfect sense. Since the set screws are not holding securely because they are just pressing against some part of the bar and I guess some empty space where the dimples are I can see why the constant movement of the grinding motion as you sharpen continuously causes some small movement in the angle of the guide rods.

I definitely need to be on the list of those who need replacement parts to make this right.

I take my hat off to Clay. I know how frustrating it must be because the solution does not seem simple. I guess you can not just replace the screws as they are the wrong size for the calibrated dimples and replaceing the square rod holder has got to be expensive. I hope the company that took the short cut to save money is covering the loss there. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Clay spoke to the guy who made this decision.

Anyway, thanks to the forum members for finding the problem and thanks for Clays response to try to address it in the best way he can. This is why I love this place.

And all this weirdness about karma…. Whaaaaaa. Don’t need no stinking karma. If anyone wants mine you are welcome to it. I have already lost most of what I once had. This is just silliness.

Keep up the good discussion, have differences, come to solutions and try to use common sense and courtesy with one another. What’s so complicated.

[Phil Pasteur]

And all this weirdness about karma…. Whaaaaaa. Don’t need no stinking karma. If anyone wants mine you are welcome to it. I have already lost most of what I once had. This is just silliness.

Amen !!!

Sort of what I tried to say !!
🙂
You did it better!

Phil

[Chris]

Another question for Clay here.

Been going through a few of the older videos and noticed the prototype ball joint arms used a different principle to lock the micro-adjust screw.
There was a slot through the top of the bracket.

Why did you drop this “clamping” idea?
I would have thought it would be a better idea than screwing a screw directly into a thread to stop it turning.

Can’t see the logic, but I’m sure you have a good reason.

Thanks.

[Chris]

Just a bump in case Clay missed this.

[wickededge]

Another question for Clay here.

Been going through a few of the older videos and noticed the prototype ball joint arms used a different principle to lock the micro-adjust screw.
There was a slot through the top of the bracket.

Why did you drop this “clamping” idea?
I would have thought it would be a better idea than screwing a screw directly into a thread to stop it turning.

Can’t see the logic, but I’m sure you have a good reason.

Thanks.

I liked it as well but let the machine shop guys talk me into the other style. I’ve been toying with some polymer tipped thumbscrews for locking the micro-adjust or going back to the slot style. Has anyone examined their threads to see if there has been any damage from the thumbscrews?

-Clay

[Chris]

I liked it as well but let the machine shop guys talk me into the other style.

Was it changed simply to lower cost?

It would seem the clamp idea is usual practice to achieve the result you require.
If not cost or manufacture time/effort, I wonder why?

The thumbscrews might take years to damage the thread if only thumbs are used.
But not long if a wrench is invoved. 😉

Thanks Clay.

edit – If “I” had a choice, put me on the list for a clamp!

[craftyhack]

I haven’t used mine yet :/, but looking at it real close pretending I have the 10-32 conical point screws(which makes the problem worse vs. the flat #8-32 I have right now), I cannot imagine that thread damage WON’T happen over time, and not much of it depending on how much micro adjustment is done. Although my real job is IT now adays, before that I had been on working on cars and motorcycles as my real job, then working on submarines while in the USN, and am back to turning wrenches on cars (buying, fixing up, flipping, love doin’ it, and good source of extra income, paid for having fun :)). Anyway, in 24 yrs of working on mechanical “stuff”, I don’t recall ever seeing a retention system like this, even on assemblies that are static and not meant to be adjustable (where in those cases typically a sharp set screw is used, or one of many other ways). Most likely because thread damage WOULD be the result, and dissassebly would be a problem every single time requiring re-tapping and die-ing or worse upon reassembly, damaging either or more likely both thread surfaces when the main (not the set) screws are removed, the metal shavings caused by the housing acting as a die on the damaged threads, but its RC hardness most likely nothing near a real die, and those metal shavings would damage the threads of the housing all the way through, and would get worse with every adjustment.

Looking at the brackets, I am going to guess they are CNCed aluminum(?), which makes the issue even worse with stainless steel screws, aluminum is WAY too soft to deal with what I am talking about above, I have learned that the hard way machining aluminum heads and intakes (porting and polishing, planing bottom of slightly warped heads, etc.). Even the smallest shaving or uneven thread on the bolts can destroy the threading in the aluminum heads/intake, so as part of the process, after machining, one must be VERY anal about ensuring that all shavings are cleaned off, and even if using new bolts, using a die on all of the bolts to true the threads before re-installing the intake, heads, or whatever. I learned the hard way to be anal given I have had resize(increase) tap the bolt holes after not being able to torque the heads/intake to spec because the orig threads were destroyed, very easy to do on aluminum :(.

Looking at this design, I believe that damaging the threads is inevitable with enough pressure applied, which I don’t think is avoidable. Polymer tipped would help but not for long against a stainless steel screw, and would definitely be a wear part, and would not take long to wear for those that use the micro adjustment a lot. Putting pressure at a 90 degree angle on threads to secure the arm screw screw is just a bad idea IMHO :(. Especially if your micro adjustment point has the thumbscrew coming directly in contact with the *edge* of the thread, where given the pressure formula… given that the contact surface area of the arms stainless steel screw is to a point, very little pressure from the stainless thumb set screw would be required to damage the thread on the arm bolt threading. Basically like standing on a 1×4 when it is flat won’t hurt your foot, but flipping that 1×4 on its side so that you are standing on the 1″ edge WILL hurt given the concentration of same pressure (your weight) on such a small surface area. With a thread on a screw coming to such a fine point, the pressure applied by the thumb set screw is magnified that much more. Ironic all of the crap I learned for engineering in college I never use at work, almost always just at home doing stuff like working on cars (thanks GI BILL :D).

Anyway, the clamp below looks perfect, as long as no metal debris (from sharpening would be the most likely suspect I am thinking) falls into the crevice before adjustments are made(or worse the arm is removed from the bracket) which would cause the same problem, but the chances are much less than with the current design I think. I would probably just put some electrical tape over the crevice to prevent that possibility, and use compressed air to clear out the area before removing the arm if I needed to do that.

Another way, and the most common way I have seen things that need to be adjusted like this would be to have nuts and lock washers on both sides of the arm (no clamp in this case, solid bracket again), and use two small ignition wrenches or something like that to loosen them, adjust the arm in or out, then tighten them again. That would be even safer, but it would also not be very user friendly, and you would most likely throw off the adjustment you just made as you were tightening the bolts since the applied torque is on the same plane :/. With enough thought, there is probably another way that is easy to do and safe while ensuring that the adjustment is not thrown off while re-tightening, just cannot think of one better than the clamp idea ATM without making it even more complicated of a part and therefore more expensive :(. The clamp sounds like the way to go do me.

Just IMHO :).

P.S. I have worked with a lot of machine shops as I have moved around over the years for cars, gun smithing, etc. for all kinds of stuff up to custom part fabrication, but I have never had as much fun with any of my 20 some odd years of encounters as you seem to be having with yours :(.

[Author]

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