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Gen 3 Pro Vise Tension

Recent Forums Main Forum Sharpener and Accessory Maintenance Gen 3 Pro Vise Tension

This topic contains 16 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Expidia 10/23/2019 at 3:02 pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #51182

    Eagle Greg
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 8

    Good Morning Everyone! I received my new Gen 3 Pro last week and slowly breaking in the stones on some junky random knives. I noticed upon receiving that the vise requires what I would consider an excessive amount of force to lock the blade in place, although I do not have a frame of reference. I have always left the tensioner all the way down and have never once had to move it. Earlier today I decided to open up the cam mechanism to clean it out as I was also hearing and feeling a grinding noise inside, this is not surprising as I am breaking in the diamond stones. I decided to remove one of the domed washers on the cam follower. The results were what I would consider great I have an old and really thin boning knife and was able to lock it in very securely with tension only set to about 40%. Is there any issue with removing one of the washers? Maybe over time the washers in the follower will weaken?

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    #51183

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 866

    I remember from a video that Josh made that the number of washers went back and forth during the prototyping stage of the clamp development. I don’t think there’s any problem caused by removing a set of the washers.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #51186

    Eagle Greg
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 8

    Thanks for the reply. I actually only removed a single washer. Seems to be working great and a way more smooth action. I saved the washer in case the other ones “Break In” over time. Just saw that video you posted as well. I am really glad I joined this forum! everyone has been GREAT!

    #51188

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1852

    I’ve also operated my Gen 3 vise with one of the spring washers (technically called Belleville washers) left out.  Belleville washers are a form of spring.  Like most other springs, the amount of force increases with the amount of displacement.  Each washer has a spring rating of how much pressure it takes to compress the spring and how much displacement is available before the spring bottoms out.

    There are different configurations you can use to vary the amount of force the springs will apply as well as the total amount of stroke available.

    If you arrange a pair of washers face-to-face (cupped sides facing each other, for a series configuration), The amount of force is the same as a single spring, but the total available stroke will be doubled.   If you arrange the washers so that you have a single stack of 5 pairs, all equal in rating, the stack will compress at the same rate as a single washer, but the stroke will be increased by a factor of five.

    If you arrange a stack of washers with the cupped sides nestled together (a parallel configuration) , the amount of force to compress the stack will be multiplied by the number of washers in the stack.  The total displacement will be the same as for a single washer.

    A mechanical designer can manipulate the configuration of the system to give the desired amount of force and the desired amount of stroke.  In the Wicked Edge Gen 3 vise, the designer has provided five sequential pairs of washers, each pair facing cup-to-cup.

    From this, you’d infer that removing one washer wouldn’t change the amount of force and you’d be right, except for the fact that the force is a function of how much displacement we force the washer stack to undergo.  Displacement here is a function of the height of the cam and the length of the stack (the number and arrangement of the washers and the length of the wedge and the width of the blade).  Removing a washer will shorten the stack, thereby reducing the amount of compression for a given blade thickness.  So if you reduce the compression, you reduce the force applied.

    Gen 3 vises of 2017 and later have a force adjustment, with a back-side lever arranged to raise or lower the cam shaft.  Lowering the cam shaft will have the same effect as removing washers.  Generally speaking, this adjustment should be set to produce the lowest clamping force which will produce a solid blade clamp action.  Think of it as a compensation for blade thickness.  The thicker the blade, the lower the cam should be.

    Sorry for my long-winded explanation, but I do love to read my own blathering.  Now that you’ve wasted your time reading my tome, go to Wiki and read their stuff, which I think is excellent.  Or, if you have ADD like me, go to Youtube.  Lots of stuff there.

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    #51191

    Eagle Greg
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 8

    Thanks for the reply. Thanks for the additional info on the Belleville washers. My new pro has the tension lever in the back, but even with all the way to zero (the minus symbol) it felt like an excessive amount of force. With the one washer removed, the thinest knife in my arsenal only requires the tension to be a set at about 30 degrees, with all the way on being 180 degrees if that makes sense. Thanks for all of the info! And… yes I have ADD with stuff like this is as well. The wife was laughing at me all weekend, including the fact that I just bought a USB microscope. Thanks again for the info!

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #51192

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 192

    When you use that microscope to remove a splinter from the wife’s finger, she won’t be laughing anymore!  🙂

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #51193

    Eagle Greg
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 8

    Ha! Yeah she already used to thread a sewing needle…

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #51407

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 108

    When I first used my Gen 3 a few months ago, I could push the vice handle all the way down where it was totally parallel to the table but as the months have gone by, it has gotten increasing difficult to mirror that.  Now it pops and creaks and sounds like I’m going to break something if I continue to use force.  Is removing one of the these washers something that would help me in pushing the handle all the way down and using the adjustment lever again?

    #51410

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1884

    Opening the vise and cleaning out the steel dust off the parts will bring back the motion you expect.  I’d also use a dry wax lubricant made for bicycles for my vises.  I do this about twice a year as a regular maintenance practice or sooner when needed.  I haven’t found the need to remove any washers and I have and use regularly four different W.E. set-ups all with Gen 3 vises.

    Here’s instructions to dismantle the vise for cleaning:

    WEClampCleaning

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #51431

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 108

    Opening the vise and cleaning out the steel dust off the parts will bring back the motion you expect. I’d also use a dry wax lubricant made for bicycles for my vises. I do this about twice a year as a regular maintenance practice or sooner when needed. I haven’t found the need to remove any washers and I have and use regularly four different W.E. set-ups all with Gen 3 vises. Here’s instructions to dismantle the vise for cleaning: WEClampCleaning

    Looks quite involved!

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    #51432

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1884

    It’s not too bad.  Everything only fits together one way.  You do have to remove the vise from the mounting base to access the four screws in the vises base plate.  There are no springs so pieces will not spring out and go flying.  Work on a towel or rag to catch parts and keep them from getting lost.  The whole process only takes a few minutes.  I dismantle it and blow it out with canned air like used to clean electronics.  The flat black rectangular piece the piston seats on that rests on the cam, this does fit better one way then another, because it’s rectangular, not square.  If it feels binding it needs to be rotated 1/4 turn.  I do like to use a dry wax teflon lubricant.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #51451

    Eagle Greg
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 8

    So… After a couple of weeks of use, I have actually re-inserted the one belleville washer I removed previously. I have disassembled the vise a couple of times and it is really easy! Just watch what you are doing and pay attention. There is a lot of debris that can get down in there, especially when breaking in the new stones. Cleaning it out with canned air is the answer to your problems. Without cleaning the assembly, I would assume you are hearing a grinding gritty noise. I have not tried the dry wax as Marc has mentioned, but I would heed his recommendation. He really knows his stuff.

    6 users thanked author for this post.
    #51452

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 192

    Sorry, my vise is the older version, was informed the newer is not open in the same manner so tape won’t help.

    But if you have the older Gen 3..

    You can use duct tape or better yet Black Gaffers Tape (not as aggressive an adhesive as duct) and cover the sides of the vise to keep the debris out of the moving parts. The Tape flexes and the vise works just fine.  Using Black Gaffers you don’t even know it is tape 😉

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  airscapes.
    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #52431

    Larry Doyle Thomas
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 1

    Thanks for the post. I took out one washer and it works much easier .

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #52433

    Lay
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 15

    +1

    I removed one pair of washers and try if this will suite my needs better. I have couple of thicker hunting knives (thickest is just under 3/16″) and the minimum tension feels a bit too much.

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