Phil Pasteur

[Phil Pasteur]

Is this still available?

[Phil Pasteur]

Here is another one… good info here. Scroll down. Apparently the Aogami is not necessarily the manufacturer.. but the Japanese name for the “blue paper” steel

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/composition-of-japanese-white-blue-steel.243804/

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mark76

[Phil Pasteur]

Mark, you may find this interesting.. though we have strayed a bit from the topic of the thread.

 

https://www.hocho-knife.com/about-steel-qualities/

 

2 users thanked author for this post.

Mark76, Marc H (Wicked Edge Expert Corner)

[Phil Pasteur]

I looked at my logs. I used 17 degrees for my ZDP knives.  This is a compromise for sure, but seems to work. I still find that the primary edge degradation seems to be micro chipping.  With 17 they are plenty sharp but seem to hold up a bit better. For the things I use pocket knives for 17 is fine.

I think the Aogami Super is the same steel as Super blue. It seems the names are used interchangeably. Honestly though, I have nothing in that steel and have not done extensive research on it. Spyderco did a mule in the steel and Called it Aogami Super Blue.

 

I did a quick search and found these notations:

Aogami Super Blue (AS)   I think the AS is for Aogami Super.

Aogami Super (Blue Super) is Blue #1

Hope that helps. Though I know it is not definitive.

 

 

3 users thanked author for this post.

Bigdaddydug, Mark76, Marc H (Wicked Edge Expert Corner)

[Phil Pasteur]

I have been a bit of a steel junkie over the years. I have blades in all of the steels that you mention. The only two I would put in a class with Maxamet are S100V and ZDP-189.  The Maxamet keeps me impressed with its edge retention though. Noticeably better than any of those.. at least for the single example that I have played with extensively. I really have not done anything with the mule… So far I have not had the chipping problems that I have had with both S110V and ZDP-189, which is a positive.

The one downside, and it is relative to your usage  patterns and ability/desire to spend a little extra time in maintenance , is the corrosion resistance. If you want something that you can use, give it a quick wipe and put it in your pocket, maybe you are looking for something with a higher chromium content. Oh and it is expensive as well. I was looking at Spyderco knives just today. The same knives in S110V are listed about 30% cheaper  than the Maxamet knives of the same model.  No matter for me. I was curious to have first hand experience with this steel. I am glad that I  bought this one.

All of the steels that you mention are great knife steels, and they all are super steels, they just are not quite a super as Maxamet. (from my limited experience and the specific design goals for this formulation.)

1 user thanked author for this post.

Mark76

[Phil Pasteur]

I have a Manix 2 light weight  in Maxamet. Nice knife. It is light an carries well. I used it about a month with the factory edge which was quite sharp and stayed that way. I have not put it on the WE yet, but I did sharpen it using my Kalamazoo belt grinder.  It took a different technique and considerably longer than  most other knives. But I did get a decent edge on it. It would tree top arm hair. Anyway, that was around two months ago. It still will shave and I have been carrying it and using it about 90% of the time.  I do the typical urban stuff with it, Opening boxes, breaking down boxes, cutting twine and rope, opening packaging, etc. It will still easily shave arm hair. Most of the knives that I carry in S30V or even S90v would have required sharpening at least a couple of times.

I think Spyderco hardens their Maxamet to 68/69.  (maybe 67/68 still very hard).

Cliff Stamp writes on the Spyderco forum:

“Maxamet is an extreme alloy, for comparison, it is to 10V what S90V is to 420J2. Maxamet is used when HSS like M4 fail because they are too soft or wear too fast – just consider that for a matter of perspective”…   “possessing properties intermediate between conventional high speed tool steels and cemented carbide.”

“Wear Resistance:
The wear resistance of Micro-Melt Maxamet alloy is better than that of conventional powder metal high speed steel grades and is equivalent to AISI A11 cold work powder metal tool steel.
A11 is K294 and CPM 10V”

Carbon 2.15 %
Manganese 0.30 %
Sulfur 0.070 %
Silicon 0.25 %
Chromium 4.75 %
Cobalt 10.00 %
Vanadium 6.00 %
Tungsten 13.00 %
Iron Balance

One may notice that the chromium content is too low  for it to be considered a stainless steel. I try to keep mine clean and wipe it down with  a Tuff Glide cloth occasionally. It has some patina spots on it, but no sign of corrosion other than that. I really like this steel!! The Manix 2 light weight is a good platform for it too. It makes getting a knife in this steel actually affordable. They also made one of their “Mules” in the steel. I picked up one of those too. This makes an even cheaper way to get a blade of Maxamet to play with.

 

I got a Gen 3 (2016) WE recently. I am itching to get the time to chuck this thing up and see what kind of edge I can put on it with that.

I am interested to hear more about your experience with your knife in Maxamet Clay.

 

Phil

1 user thanked author for this post.

wickededge

[Phil Pasteur]

Nice pics! There have been heated discussions here about whether burnishing may occur during stropping or not. I can’t find them right now, but you could try to find them yourself using the search function (on the tab “Search”, not the search box)

I was part of most of the discussions. I don’t recall any HEAT at all. Maybe it is a matter of perception. I thought is was an academic exchange of thoughts..

I also wrote about this topic on my blog.

Not logic, or evidence that was accepted by all was presented there! Simply conjecture based on limited magnification photos showing you something that you had already decided was happening without sufficient data at hand

Success!(??) And interested in your further findings!

I too would be interested in controlled research with documentation via the SEM so that we might make some objective conclusions about what is happening to the steel.

Not sure what success in this context means. In looking at the…MOST excellent micrographs, I guess my interpretation differs a bit. At this small a scale, it looks like to me that the results could easily have been caused by polishing by abrasion. I can take sand paper on steel… 1000 grit FEPA.. on a macro level and see features that appear very close to what I am seeing in these SEM captures. Leather, plain leather having very small and very sparse abrasives… generally silicates, the plain leather strop could easily cause the type of wear patterns illustrated into the related micrographs, by polishing the material. This would hardly equate to causing plastic flow of the steel through rubbing it with with enough force as so as to cause plastic deformation of the steel.

Not sure, again, what success in this context means… If the steel is sharper, that is what I would call success. What “I” don’t’ see is evidence of burnishing, in the classical definition of that term!

“Burnishing is the plastic deformation of a surface due to sliding contact with another object. Visually, burnishing smears the texture of a rough surface and makes it shinier. Burnishing may occur on any sliding surface if the contact stress locally exceeds the yield strength of the material.”

Now, maybe someone can point out specifics in the photos that indicate that “plastic deformation” has occurred rather then (sub) microscopic wear patterns (abrasion). Perhaps it is there, but not needing to prove a point to myself that it IS… I just don’t see it. I have looked closely. I worked in a CAL/FAILURE lab for what was Martin Marietta Denver Aerospace, for 5 years, they, taught me to analyze wear patterns and identify the mechanism of wear that was causing different types of patterns in steel. I would have failed my certification class If I told them galling or burnishing was happening to metal as illustrated in the SEM captures . Being able to do this is was critical when performing failure analysis on parts and systems that are MAN rated. If I had deduced That wear was,caused by fine abrasion! That would have passed me… What we had to figure out was the amount and type of wear that occurred in metal parts that rub against east other, and as completely understand the mechanism of the wear, and precisely predict wear over time. There could be no errors or personal bias involved. It was the potential for losing men’s lives in flight that forced us to do it correctly.

Again, I really have no clue what why mark wrote “success” when he did that.

Interesting… after all of these months… and lots more questions than real answers.

We proclaimed success Still unclear about what succeeded and what is the proof of that.

Maybe one day we can discuss biases in observing… it is part of the human psyche. We mostly see what our brains tell us we want to see.. it is inescapable! 👿 😛

Merry Christmas ALL and the best of New Years as well!!

Glad to be back for awhile!
Though I am feeling no heat whatsoever…!! Hopefully I am not emitting any either 😆

If what seems to be called heated here is related or correlated to global warming… the glaciers will be in fine shape for many thousands of years!! :cheer:

But glad to be able to exchange ideas with you folks in any case, at least for the moment!!!

Phil

[Phil Pasteur]

If you don’t need it.. you don’t. But it is a great all around lapping plate!

If you have water stones for the WEPS or any non-diamond bench stones. This thing would be a great investment. It is also about 25% less than you can find it for in most places… and not have to wait weeks to get it.. I can knock a few bucks off for anyone that is serious about wanting it. Make an offer.

I won’t bump this again… as I am a packrat, I will just hang on to it.. Better to have somebody use it though!!

🙂

Phil

Hey guys,
I ordered a set of the Atoma plates awhile back. Somehow I ended up with an extra 400 grit plate.
It has never been used. I did mark the 4 edges with “400” to make it easier to identify. Othe than that it is NIB with all original packaging.

I think that this was the Atoma that Tom listed as the best of the grits if you only had one of them, for lapping stones.

I was asked.. this is the 8″ X 3″ plate.

If anyone is interested I can sell it for what I have into it. $75.00 plus shipping CONUS only.
I should be able to get it into one of the approx. $6 priority boxes from USPS. I can take Paypal.

PM me or send email to
pp at Q dot com
if interested.
Phil

[Phil Pasteur]

If you look back in the thread, I posted very early on about my problems with BSS.
You should have gotten the riser and the ball joint arms with the PP II for certain.

The base… well, when I ordered mine the picture they had on the web site was of a black base. It was listed as quartz. I got a white base that is Quarzite, a synthetic stone. It works fine BTW…
When I finally heard back for him, he pointed out that the site states they will select the color. It did. I soon got over the color issue, as the base does exactly what it is supposed to do… and weighs about 15 pounds…so it holds everything very solidly. My base was also shipped separately.. but that was well before there were any Pro Packs offered. I think the bases were always sold separately at that time.

It sounds like… if you get the riser and new arms…and all of the stones are there, you will be up to the PPII level.

I think that they only way I ever heard back for the owner is because Clay intervened. I am really surprised, after all of the issue this guy has had, that he is still a dealer for WEPS.

I’m sorry that this has to be my first post here, but I’m kicking myself now! I wish I had checked BSS reviews before placing my order. Ordered the Pro Pack 2 and received it today. But, it came shipped in two separate packages. The base came in one. It was made of some kind of “smurf blue” stone. Is this right? I thought the pro pack 2 comes with a natural color quartz base.

The BIGGEST problem is that the kit came with the old arms and no riser block. It looks like they just took a Pro Pack 1 and added some stones and one of their cheap bases to make it look like a Pro Pack 2. Called them twice right away and only got their answering service. A couple people who didn’t seem to know anything about the business. Also emailed Mike and no response yet. I hope I haven’t thrown away $700 DOLLARS!!!!

Can someone please post a picture of what a current Wicked Edge Pro Pack 2 package should look like? Thanks!

Rob

[Phil Pasteur]

http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=5&id=10422&Itemid=271&view=topic

#10434

If Fred says it works, I am sure it does… at least short term.

BTW, I use both the Picards that I link to there and the Obenauf’s oil.. for different applications. Both are good.
I decided to go with the latter when I actually tried it on some strops.

[Phil Pasteur]

Sauce,
Nope. It is still in the box unused and unsharpened. A shame in one way … I like to use my knives. Good in another, it hasn’t depreciated in value as much.

[Phil Pasteur]

Thanks, and especially thanks to you Bob for helping out and having the patience to answer all my questions.

Tonight I got my first HHT-4 / HHT-5 edge on a Richmond Artifex Gyuto in m390 steel at 13 degrees (much thanks to the Chosera stones)! It did not come out a perfect mirror (the steel is this one is a bit of a pain to sharpen) and it ate my roo strops as a night snack, I don’t know how many times I knicked them, but in the end it became plenty sharp.

I have one of those knives.. and have been a great proponent of the Chosera stones for quite awhile. My question is, did you take the M390 through the 10K stones. If so, how does it cut …for the things we typically use a knife like that for. As in food prep, especially slicing vegetables and meat.

I left mine at the 15 degrees that it came with and stopped after the Aotoshi 2K (which was visibly a finer finish than it came with). Stropped a little bit with 1 micron and .5 micron CBN. It is quite sharp and a great slicer in that configuration. I will be interested to hear about how far you went with it and how you like the performance… and longevity of the edge.

I am curious to know whether it could be worth it to re-profile to 13 degrees and use the finer stones.
Typically I have found that the old adage about leaving a little tooth (if 2K can be considered “toothy”) on an edge for food slicing is a pretty good one. So, I am curious.

BTW.. back on topic, good decision in getting the Chosera set! In retrospect, the alternating of the grits sounds like a good thing. Efficiency is always good. I suppose I can live with the ten minute soak time breaks in the action though…. not quite worth yanking them off of the paddles to rearrange them…
🙂

One last digression. What camera and settings did you use to take the picture. Quite impressive!

[Phil Pasteur]

I have read on the forums that the leather strops work best when sort of tacky, and that a little paste goes a long way. I know I’ve put plenty of paste on the strops. When I first put the paste on they are too wet and there is no friction. After a short time they start to fell right, but they quickly get dry and lose their sticktion. I’ve tried putting on the paste and letting it sit over night, but the next day the strops are dry, slick and hard. I’ve tried using a little alcohol as I have seen suggested, but that just seems to dry them out more.

Suggestions?

How are your results? That is the important part!
At most you may have to adjust your technique as the leather gets harder. The work that is being done by the strops, when using pastes or sprays, is for the most part done by the abrasives. If you have a good coat of abrasives and your blades are getting sharp, you have nothing to worry about.

Clay has mentioned that he likes more friction between the strop and blade one a few occasions. This fits his technique, or at least what he was doing at that particular time. It does not mean that this is the only way that the strops can be used effectively.

If you need to get the strops back to feeling closer to new, the only way that I have found is to “lap” them with sand paper to remove the old abrasive and expose fresh leather. I would not use any vegetable oil on leather as any of them will oxidize over time, which you don’t want to happen. A good leather treatment/preservative would be better. I would avoid anything with silicon in it, as this will likely make the strops slick.

I have been using this for years and like it:
https://www.obenaufs.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=18

I use it on many leather items, but tend to use Lexol for leather in cars because it has some cleaning ability.

For items like boots gloves and yes … strops, I put the oil on and put the item in the oven at about 125 degrees until it is all absorbed, then do it again, until no more conditioner is absorbed into the leather.

For strops, it might worth trying the conditioning route, at least a few times, but at some point it will be better to just replace the leather. I have found that this Bark tanned leather from Handamerican sold by Woodcraft, works very well fro the WEPS strops:
http://www.woodcraft.com/catalog/productpage2.aspx?prodid=8620

It is a bit expensive when you think you can buy complete horse butts for $12, but it is nice and smooth and consistent so you don’t have to mess with finishing it. One piece will make a bunch of WEPS strops.

Keep in mind the way I started this… if your strops are working for you … you have learned how to use them the way they are, and you are getting good results, maybe you should not agonize over the situation!

[Phil Pasteur]

RE: rotating stones:
:unsure: :ohmy:
I marked all my stones at each end of the handle. I marked them as “1A” “1B” “2A” and “2B” I sharpen my knife using the “1” side up or down and the “A” either on the left or right. So, for example, On the first knife ” 1A” is in the top left, second knife it is bottom left, third knife top right and fourth knife bottom left. Hopefully this helps compensate for differences between my right-hand and left-hand technique as well as my upstroke and down stroke technique.

I think that this should help to equalize stone wear as well where it is a factor. I have the ends of the paddles marked so that I can alternate that aspect. I probably should mark the paddles for use on alternating sides as well. Good idea.

[Phil Pasteur]

Darrell,

You know, I am not sure that there is a real definitive answer to the question. It is more a situation where I use what I have that works. I only have two paddles with balsa mounted on them. So that is 4 grits. When I got them I loaded them with the abrasives that I had. I used 3M pastes on them, which I found I am not all that fond of. As my collection of strops grew I focused on leather, mostly because I had lots of different grades on hand from making bench strops over the years. Further along I learned about Kangaroo and nanocloth. Now I have all of my sub-micron pastes on these strops. So I have different strops with horse butt, and different grades of (and tanning methods) of leather for the coarse pastes and sprays and the finest stuff on the ‘roo and nano. I guess that with all of that going I just don’t reach for the balsa strops that much, if at all. I suppose I could clean them up and apply some better abrasives, but I haven’t seen the need. I guess this kind of thing happens when you have far more tools than you really “need” for a given job.

I suppose another part of this is that I am a creature of habit. I get something that works for me and I tend to stay with that until something comes along that is just so much better that it forces me to change things up. The bulk of the sharpening that I have been doing lately fits the pattern nicely. With limited time these days to devote to experimentation … I just do what I do well and call it good.
Not very adventuresome, but expeditious…
:ohmy: 😉

So, it is not that I find anything intrinsically “wrong” with the balsa strops… I simply don’t use the ones that I have. As usual, if you find that they work well for you, I wouldn’t want to say anything that would discourage you from using them. That being said, if you get a chance to try some Kangaroo or, especially nanocloth (I think I could use these for all grades of abrasives and never look back!), I think you would be very happy with the results!!

[Author]

Posts