Ken Buzbee

[Ken Buzbee]

Mjcollier wrote:

A 24 degree inclusive bevel may be to steep to support such a carbide heavy steel. Cutting the apex off and then putting a 30-40 degree bevel micro on may help.

Yeah, I’d kinda had the same thought, but I wanted to try it and see. I’d thought the edge might not stand up, but I didn’t think I wouldn’t even be able to form it.

In a sense that’s exactly what I did, but doing the “micro” (It’s larger than I’d consider a micro) with the ceramics really helped out the process. Still a great cutter even with the wider edge.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Great thread, Marc! As we discussed in my Maxamet thread, yes, I’ve seen similar results on hard, high carbide steels. Switching to a different media (in that case, the micro ceramics) made a huge difference. It may well be that if I could examine the edge under even higher magnification I would still see this but from a practical perspective the edge left by the micro ceramics is very clean, lacking the chipping/pitting evidenced by the Atoma plates

I’d be interested in hearing anyone else’s experience and how you tried resolving it.

Ken

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Mark76, sksharp, Marc H

[Ken Buzbee]

Thank you, guys! Switching media was exactly what was needed. I’d become so enamored of these Atoma plates and the slightly toothy edge they leave that I’d kinda just packed everything else away for the time being.

But (apparently) that won’t work for these very hard, high carbide steels. (At least I can’t do it) Switching over to the micro ceramics left a beautiful clean edge on the Maxamet. Revisiting my K390 Urbans, I actually noticed the same phenomenon. It was much more subtle and I hadn’t spent the time to really look at the edge, but once I did, that same wavey/chippy edge could be seen, just several orders of magnitude less than on the Maxamet. Didn’t take long on the micro ceramics to clean those up too.

So, going forward, on these hard/high carbide steels, I still plan the use the Atomas to thin the edge if needed, but once I get near the apex I’m going to switch out to water stones and/or ceramics to finish it up.

Great analysis and resolution, guys! Well done.

Ken

1 user thanked author for this post.

Marc H

[Ken Buzbee]

Agreed TC, it is kinda like what you see on ceramic blades. A bit less regular (more random) but good analogy.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Marc H wrote:

Ken I tried to get a Forum Category on Sharpening Super Stainless Steels going but no one cared to follow or contribute. I really think these steels are a totally separate animal requiring a little different finesse or sharpening technique. Thanks

I’m coming to agree about that. Great idea.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Marc H wrote:

I have shared a similar experience, (I wrote about in an earlier thread on this Forum) when sharpening some Japanese Kitchen knives made of SG2 Steel that is categorized as “Powdered High Speed Tool Steel” or “micro-carbide powdered Crucible Steel”. This steel is Cryodur Ice Hardened to Hrc 62 or 63. I now only sharpen these type of knives with wetstones. The smoothest edge I can get still has very tiny microchips down the bevel visible only at high power with the USB mscope. The knives are very sharp and very durable, just a PIA to sharpen. I do sharpen them at 14 dps. ….I looked up Maxamet for the type steel in your knife: Spyderco says it’s hardened to Hrc 67-68.

I saw your post after I posted and thought ‘gee, that sounds very similar’!

Good advice. I’ll get both wetstones and ceramics a shot and see what happens.

Yeah, Spyderco ran these pretty hard from what I understand. Could be part of the issue along with the carbide volume.

Thanks guys!

Ken

1 user thanked author for this post.

Marc H

[Ken Buzbee]

I found it interesting that his pictures showed the same scenario I’m seeing. Maybe this is just the way Maxamet behaves but I wanted to see if anyone here has seen the same thing.

Sharpening it was very odd. I thinned the edge a lot (which took FOREVER) but as I was forming the apex the edge seemed to crumble away (for lack of a better term) Initially I thought maybe it was over heated during the factory grind, I’ve seen that before. But the further I took it, it just kept happening.

The thing I can’t (okay, can’t EASILY, haha) get through is the pieces that seem to fall out are way larger than the grit in on. So, the 140 plates left huge “chips”. As I moved down in grit size, that improved but the “chips” at each level were 15x the size of the grit being used. I would not normally be trying to remove something that size even with the grit I was on, let alone going down another level.

By the time I was using the 1200 plates it seemed like I was just polishing the peaks. 1200 grit would take 40,000 stokes to remove what I’m seeing (this knife already has 6,000+ Strokes on it, just to get to this point.

Unless someone here has some better ideas, I think I may widen the angle and see if I can refine just the edge with ceramics or diamond films. Even if that works I think it will be a long process and not leave the edge I was trying to get, but that just might not be possible with this steel.

[Ken Buzbee]

Josh wrote:

Any pics of the edge with your scope Ken?

I don’t, but this is a picture Cliff Stamp posted that is pretty similar

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[Ken Buzbee]

Ideally, we’d like a way to rate stones (and stropping compounds) on the basis of their abrasiveness. (And I don’t even know whether that is possible… what is abrasiveness?) Over the years I’ve posted this issue several times on different forums, but I don’t think anybody came with an answer.

I agree with you, Mark. I think there is no true rating possible as there are too many variables in play. To arrive at anything resembling accurate relative comparison, you would need to hold all those variables constant and that wouldn’t apply to anyone not holding the same parameters.

Just one example, take pressure. You can use two stones with vastly different grit ratings. Apply diffenert pressures to each and achieve very similar scratch patterns (ie results) Does that mean these two stones are the same “grit”? Clearly not. But they can acchieve the same result.

Taking this further, you can take two stones with very similar “grit size” but very different substructure. At one presure they may achieve similar results, but increase the pressure (on both) and they do not change equally. So a person using 1/2 pound of pressure may think these stones are identical but someone using 1 pound of pressure will think they are completely different. (Just an example, not a recommendation of pressure to actually use. 😉 )

IMO the best you can do is rank stones within their family (say Atoma plates for example) but trying to compare an Atoma plate of one grit rating to a ceramic stone of equal grit rating is an exercise in frustration.

Hopefully, as you learn your gear (and read the experiences of others) you can devise a progression that suites your needs.

This is not the linear comparison most people think they have by using grit ratings to compare various stones.

Just my thoughts,

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

not as a burr removal technique… that should be done prior to leather if at all possible. My .02 anyway.

No argument here. In fact I’ve seen stropping “mask” burr removal by simply straightening it out. You couldn’t feel it any more but it was still there and collapsed on the first cut.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

He give any reason for stropping between each grit level? A bit counterintuitive to me.

Most people I’ve seen do this do it to remove any residual burr between steps. Not really an issue with correct WEPS technique but free hand? Yeah, I guess I get that.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Good post, Leo!

It’s often the basic things that get overlooked.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Fallkniven PXL folder that I sold and now regret. 😉

Leo

I hate when that happens! So much i almost never sell ANYTHING! 😉

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Thanks guys!

Yeah, I kinda hate this knife. I LOVE getting new knives and this thing has stopped a whole bunch of purchases lately 😉 I look at the possible acquisition, then look at the Memory and go “naw, I’d never carry it” 😉 It’s kinda like that voice in your head, but worse, because it’s AWESOME… 😉

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Some terrific knives, gents!

For me, pretty much constantly since it arrived, a Centofante Memory

This knife is a perfect sized EDC IMO. 3″ blade, blue anodized Ti scales with glass fiber overlay on the non clip side. Liner lock. Butter smooth.

I never thought I’d like it as well as I do. I tend to go for (what I perceive as) more ergonomic designs, but this knife, with no choil and little contouring is really quite perfect.

Ken

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