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New to WE, angle issues

This topic contains 9 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  MarcH 04/19/2019 at 9:40 am.

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  • #50155

    Roy
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 5

    Hey guys, I’ve been working with my WE go for about a week now. Sharpening my spyderco Para 3. I’ve been breaking in my stones and I think I’m there, but I’m having issue getting a consistent angle. Here is my issue:

    I have both arms set to 19 degrees on each side. On the right side, my angle cube will read slightly under, about 18.50 degrees, and my left side will read just over, about 19.50 degrees. I’m thinking that possibly my edges were already off before I got my WE go in. Should I ignore the angle cube, and reprofile the blade with both arms set at 19 degrees even? Or, should I adjust the arms until the angle cube reads 19 degrees exactly on both sides?

    I know this isn’t much of a deviation, but it’s enough to bother me. I want the best edge I can get, it’s an obsession. And right now, it’s driving me crazy! What should I do guys?

    Thanks!

    #50156

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1752

    Roy, the inscribed angle demarcations on the WE GO are just suggested indicators.  If you want true angle settings, use you properly zeroed Angle cube.  Loosen the guide rods locks and slide them in and out to get as close as you can to get to hitting your angles with the cube.

    The WE GO is a simple basic equipped sharpener. It is not equipped to allow for the precision adjustments you seek.  All you can do is get it pretty close.  With enough fiddling around you may get it right on.  The WE 120 is the first model Sharpener in the product line that is enabled with the micro-angle adjustment feature.

    Understand that, as long as you bring both side bevels together at the apex and remove the burrs, while spending the appropriate time and effort to smooth the bevels.  That knife will cut just as well as the knife sharpened the same way to the precisely measured  bevels.  You can not tell the difference between close and precision set bevels as long as the sharpening technique is done correctly for both.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #50160

    Toxophilus
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 6

    Roy, curious what generation jaws are you using?

     

    #50187

    Roy
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 5

    Hey Tox, I’m not really quite sure…just the jaws that came with the WE Go. One side is stationary, the other side moves along the base. Why do you ask?

    I do have another angle question that I’d like to ask but don’t want to post a new thread as it’s related to this topic.

    I’ve been getting much more acquainted with the WE Go system. So far, I’ve been able to get a very nice clean cutting edge…and I’m just working on getting that mirror polish now. My question is this… When I begin my sharpening process, I set my arms and measured with the cube to 19 degrees each side. I started at the 400 grit diamonds and advanced through 600, 800, 1000, finishing with 1200 and 1600 grit ceramics. After finishing, I put my 200 grit stone back on the arms and measured my angles again…they were at about 18.40 degrees on the left, and 18.50 degrees on the right. When I started, I marked where the arms ticks are, and they definitely did not move.

    So…what caused this? Removing all the metal…? And I wonder, when I sit down to touch up the blade later, should I set the angles at 19 degrees per side, or go with the adjusted measurements?

    Thanks guys, this forum has helped me greatly in understanding this system.

    #50189

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 820

    Hey Tox, I’m not really quite sure…just the jaws that came with the WE Go. One side is stationary, the other side moves along the base. Why do you ask? I do have another angle question that I’d like to ask but don’t want to post a new thread as it’s related to this topic. I’ve been getting much more acquainted with the WE Go system. So far, I’ve been able to get a very nice clean cutting edge…and I’m just working on getting that mirror polish now. My question is this… When I begin my sharpening process, I set my arms and measured with the cube to 19 degrees each side. I started at the 400 grit diamonds and advanced through 600, 800, 1000, finishing with 1200 and 1600 grit ceramics. After finishing, I put my 200 grit stone back on the arms and measured my angles again…they were at about 18.40 degrees on the left, and 18.50 degrees on the right. When I started, I marked where the arms ticks are, and they definitely did not move. So…what caused this? Removing all the metal…? And I wonder, when I sit down to touch up the blade later, should I set the angles at 19 degrees per side, or go with the adjusted measurements? Thanks guys, this forum has helped me greatly in understanding this system.

    If the angle guide rods didn’t move then the answer is likely that your knife slipped downward in the clamp ever so slightly. I suggest that you should set it up for 19 degrees per side again when resharpening and then check with a sharpie to see that you have removed metal all the way to the apex. If not, make minor adjustments and check again.

    Edit: The knife would had to have moved up, not down in order to give a lower angle.

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    #50190

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1752

    Roy,  it may be possible that your sharpening took away enough steel that your after sharpening readings were about 0.5 degrees more since the edge is now essentially lower.    Since you marked the  guide rod positions and verified they didn’t shift the only other guess for an explanation may be possible the knife settled slightly lower in the vise due to the light sharpening pressure down on the knife edge.  I have a question about your 18.5 & 18.4 degree readings.  Did you use the angle cube just how you set it up for the initial readings, that is the same way and with the same measurement positions?  Also did you re-zero the cube before taking the after sharpening angle readings?  It’s important to make all your angle measurements the same way with the same cube placement on the stone, the same stone placement, slid up or down on the guide rods, and the same stone placement as it leans against the knife edge.  Consistency is key.  Then with regards to zeroing, only zero your cube one time at the start of your knife sharpening session.  Then use the cube just how you turn it on throughout the entire process, start to finish.

    When I resharpen the knife I always set the bevel angle at the angle I sharpened it to, the last time.  In your case 19.0 degrees.  Each sharpening session is independent.  It may be a touch-up to the previously sharpened knife edge.  We have possibly moved our sharpener’s position and the knife is certainly being re-positioned in the vise jaws again as we re-clamp the knife for the touch-up.  Even if we recorded the knife’s precise original sharpening position, we are still re-clamping it while trying to match that previous position we recorded in our sharpening logs.  So everything may be slightly different.  You will be re-sharpening the knife or touching-up the edge to a 19 degree bevel angle each time until you decide you want to profile the edge to some different angle.

     

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #50228

    Roy
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 5

    Hey MarcH, yeah I do believe I’ve been measuring the angles the exact same way each time. I’ve definitely learned that consistency is key with this system. So I’m guessing either the knife slid down just a bit, or I’m removing enough metal to make that slight angle difference. I’ve been using a digital caliper to measure the x and y positions of the knife in the jaws for repeatability in future, I just didn’t think to remeasure after sharpening to see if the knife had moved at all. Always learning!

    Thanks for all your help

    #50229

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1752

    Roy, I use the angle cube to read the guide rod angles and micro-adjust them as needed with each and every grit change.  So I start each new grit back at the same sharpening angle I stared the knife at.  Not everyone does this.  I prefer to do it this way.

    If I see when using the new grit that my scratch patterns are not being applied across the entire height of the bevel but only towards the top or edge of the bevel, or maybe only down low on the bevel.  Invariably if I double check that stone’s angle reading it’s always off by just a few 10th of a degree.  Sometimes less.  Just enough that I can see the difference with the USB microscope.

    I know that checking the angles makes a difference.  I  can clearly see the difference in the results.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  MarcH.
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    #50245

    Roy
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 5

    Hey March, I went back over the knife starting at 800 grit and remeasured the angle after each grit change. I think this helped me stay more consistent, making very small adjustments when needed, and at the end the angle difference wasn’t so large. I think I’m getting the hang of this! My Para 3 is scary sharp now, with a very highly polished bevel.

    When holding the edge parallel to the ground, the edge looks great, pretty much a mirror finish. When I rotate the knife and look a little closer though, scratches and scuffs begin to show up. Why is this? I’m assuming they’re deep scratches from the very low grits? Right now, I have up to 1200-1600 grit ceramics, what would you recommend me adding to the collection for a nice mirror edge without spending hundreds? I was contemplating the leather strops with 3.5-5 micron pastes.

    #50246

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1752

    Roy, first, a truly “scratch free” mirror polish is almost impossible.  Especially if you don’t invest hundreds of dollars in the necessary abrasives, polishing mediums and accessory tools.  I’ve only seen maybe two knives in my few years at this, that may have been polished that well.  I never saw those bevels up close or magnified.

    Roy I don’t recall what all you have in the way of accessories.  A USB Microscope (at a minimum one like this inexpensive model) is almost a necessary tool to see your progress.  Scratch control and removal is a process form the very get-go, with the first grit.  Each and every grit must be applied with the upmost care, precision and attention to detail.

    I’m not a real fan of the ceramic stones.  They were first introduced to sharpening, before we had these newer mediums we now employ. They do have their place in a sharpening profile and are quite effective.  I just find them harder to fit into a progression intended to progress down to very fine grits and polished bevels, as well as other mediums fit in that sort of progressions.  If it were up to me I’d go from your 1000 grit diamond stone to a 1500 grit diamond stone.  From there I’d start with the 6µ DLF (diamond lapping films) and follow that with 3µ, 1.5µ, and 1.0µ DLFs.  (Finer grits with the DLFs are debatable in their effectiveness).

    (There are alternative routes to your goal, like a progression of Whetstones, with or without DLFs.  These whetstones require their own learned experience and attention to detail that every medium requires.)

    From there I’d begin, at a minimum, a 4 step stropping progression, but 6 steps would probably be better.  The stropping technique is a whole technique “all unto itself”.  With it’s own set of rules and challenges.

    Maybe after enough time, effort and experience you may see something closer to the results you’re looking for, today.  Remember that a funny thing happens along the way…as we get better at sharpening and gain experience and more confidence we tend to raise the bar higher.  What you’re hoping to see today may not be good enough then.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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