Any tips on sharpening a Sandrin tungsten carbide blade

[Glenn Goodlett]

My Sandrin Monza finally got somewhat dull. I tried following the best I could the instructions on their website on sharpening. The best I could get was a BESS of 370. Upon inspection with a microscope the edge looks chipped out pretty badly. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have a WE 130 with diamond stones, lapping films, etc.

Home – Sandrin Knives USA

Sandrin sharpening video- Sharpening a Sandrin Tungsten Carbide Blade – YouTube

[Marc H]

I find I get good sharpening results using W. E. whetstones when attempting to sharpen very hard and chip prone steels.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

2 users thanked author for this post.

sksharp, Glenn Goodlett

[sksharp]

What has worked for me on very chip prone material, in my case ceramic blades, use finer stones than you normally would and very light pressure. To much grit and they chip, to much pressure they chip. I like the idea of the whetstones, the softer stones will help prevent chipping. Take your time because it will take longer to sharpen than normal knives.

[David]

I have never sharpened a carbide knife blade but have sharpened/modified plenty of carbide cutting tools. For ceramic knives when stones chip the edge I use diamond loaded strops. It seems to me that for such “chippy” blades you need to reduce the point pressure on the apex, and the only way to do this is with a softer “bond”. This is the only way I could avoid chipping with a black Kyocera knife I have, all other stones would leave micro chipping no matter what I did. I then tried leather with diamonds and no chipping at all looking at the apex with a microscope.

[tcmeyer]

I bought a WorkSharp 3000 for sharpening plane blades, thinking that it would also speed up the process of sharpening ceramic knives as well.  Haven’t tried it yet, but the principle of higher grits and low pressure makes a lot of sense.  Thanks guys, for reminding me of a lesson learned five years ago.  I’ll have to give it a try.

[jettywolf]

SANDRIN KNIVES:  I BELIEVE CLAY NEEDS TO INVESTIGATE, AND DO HIS OWN FINDINGS AND A VIDEO.

THIS IS THE FUTURE.

I know I may be late to the party, but it’s all about lapping films. Just bought the Sandrin Torino to mess with.

NOW, May 2023 there’s plenty of videos about it including one on their website.

There’s a progression for sure.

check edge angle, they say 18 degrees.

30micron / 9micron and very light oil, now/ 3micron/ 1micron…and I bet for the ultimate polish??? 0.1 micron.

I’m going to play with it. Hope W.E. lapping films are up to the test. They say a edge leading stroke is best.

You’ll see more info about it I’m sure as these get even more popular.

BTW:  I don’t like that Edge Tester. I had one 2 days and sent it back. I worked on a Buck 110 brand new (had to clean it up from a terrible edge)

it would whittle hairs. I made a video of out of 5 times testing the edge I got different measurements at least 3 out of 5. Sent video to the rep who does the videos on YT. He didn’t have much to say except the way you hold it, the way you do this and that. Seemed like a bunch of excuses to me.

So, my bench mark is “”whittling hairs”” for extreme sharpness, and thats good enough for me. Sent that damn thing back. It seemed useless for the $$.

and gimicky to me.

 

[Marc H]

Edge leading strokes will probably slash lapping films. Do to the nature of the thin plastic-like film, edge trailing, that is up and off strokes, like used with strops are recommended with this medium, also.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[jettywolf]

guys are using very tough films, and they are doing it.

https://youtu.be/t4lFuijANVU

he talks about tough lapping films

1 user thanked author for this post.

Marc H

[000Robert]

jettywolf wrote:

SANDRIN KNIVES: I BELIEVE CLAY NEEDS TO INVESTIGATE, AND DO HIS OWN FINDINGS AND A VIDEO. THIS IS THE FUTURE. I know I may be late to the party, but it’s all about lapping films. Just bought the Sandrin Torino to mess with. NOW, May 2023 there’s plenty of videos about it including one on their website. There’s a progression for sure. check edge angle, they say 18 degrees. 30micron / 9micron and very light oil, now/ 3micron/ 1micron…and I bet for the ultimate polish??? 0.1 micron. I’m going to play with it. Hope W.E. lapping films are up to the test. They say a edge leading stroke is best. You’ll see more info about it I’m sure as these get even more popular. BTW: I don’t like that Edge Tester. I had one 2 days and sent it back. I worked on a Buck 110 brand new (had to clean it up from a terrible edge) it would whittle hairs. I made a video of out of 5 times testing the edge I got different measurements at least 3 out of 5. Sent video to the rep who does the videos on YT. He didn’t have much to say except the way you hold it, the way you do this and that. Seemed like a bunch of excuses to me. So, my bench mark is “”whittling hairs”” for extreme sharpness, and thats good enough for me. Sent that damn thing back. It seemed useless for the $$. and gimicky to me.

The Bess tester just takes practice time to get used to it. And you have to be careful. But it is not needed really. I decided to keep mine though. If an edge can whittle hairs, it sounds pretty good to me. I have more confidence in my homemade strap holder that I use for my HD 2″ Poly and Nylon webbing straps. If a blade edge can cut the strap and stay sharp, then it’s pretty good to me. And the strap will remove burrs also.

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[000Robert]

Glenn Goodlett wrote:

My Sandrin Monza finally got somewhat dull. I tried following the best I could the instructions on their website on sharpening. The best I could get was a BESS of 370. Upon inspection with a microscope the edge looks chipped out pretty badly. Any ideas would be appreciated. I have a WE 130 with diamond stones, lapping films, etc. Home – Sandrin Knives USA Sandrin sharpening video- Sharpening a Sandrin Tungsten Carbide Blade – YouTube

Hi Glenn. I’m curious to know if you were using edge-leading strokes. I noticed something similar a couple of years ago with a blade. I stopped using edge-leading strokes, except for the up/down strokes, and haven’t had any problems since. Maybe it’s just the way I hold and use the stones, I’m not sure, but edge-trailing strokes just work better for me.

[tcmeyer]

Which stroke direction works for each user is a subjective thing.  For whatever reason, one might work better for you than others and that’s fine. Clay did some tests awhile back and found that under higher magnifications, edge leading strokes seemed to leaved a less jagged apex.  I had argued this point for several years as I had experienced some horrific edge damage at the very low grits.  The premise is that carbides at the apex could more easily be torn free by forces pushing them away from the apex than by forces driving them into the apex.  Even if you agree that this only happens at lower grits, you have to then accept that it will take more effort (strokes) by the next higher grits to erase the damage done by the lower grits.  Now you face the problem of deciding when you’ve erased all (or most) of the damage from the lower grit and what is the least amount of damage you have caused with the current grit.  If you can’t make a clear decision at every grit change, you face the prospect of never completely achieving the best possible edge refinement.  A rabbit hole if ever there was one.  Switch to edge leading and eliminate doubt.

But perhaps the best reason for going to edge leading is the simple fact that it exposes your pinkies to the least amount of time and motion above the edge.  Are you on blood thinners?

[000Robert]

Hmm, I don’t know, maybe my problem was mixing them up? I was mainly using edge-leading strokes to knock off burrs. And they would dull my edges. I stopped using them and the problem went away. I also consider edge-trailing strokes to be safer. I sharpen a lot slower than a lot of people I see in videos as well. Slapping the stones to the blade and using very fast strokes may be the biggest problem that some people are making. I know that I’m not good enough to sharpen that fast But I’m still learning and may be wrong, though it works well for me. Part of the differences may also be to how we hold the stones. Also, how much pressure we use. I’ve found that a lighter pressure on the stones work better too.

[jettywolf]

I believe ”we” are talking
<h4 class=”page-title”>Sandrin’s tungsten carbide blade, recomendations</h4>
on this post.  And all of ”my” comments per this initial post asking about these unique blades is per what SANDRIN says themselves. By posting this video and other under their channel name.

Maybe W.E. isn’t the best sharpener for the job?  I

bought one of these knives, because I’M VERY curious, like many. And it may take me 5 yrs. to really dull it.

I’m not out to beat it, or cut endless cardboard. Just EDC it for very normal tasks.

Some are poo-poo’ing it. QUOTE: ‘‘The problem with the Sandrin knife is getting it shaving sharp. I like 15v, K390, and maxamet a lot more… The effort to maintain the knife is less and they cut better.”

WHILE OTHERS STATE: QUOTE; ”Is it possible to home sharpen Tungsten Carbide? You bet. Much harder than steel, many EDC users may never need to resharpen a Sandrin Polyhedral Tungsten Carbide blade but this condensed video courtesy of sharpening wizard Ben Spaloss shows his process on how to restore a razor-sharp edge.”

I get my SANDRIN TORINO tomorrow, and am looking at W.E. lapping films , ”I COULD NEED IN THE FUTURE” I presently don’t have much of an assortment.

IT’LL BE A FUN RIDE.

CLAY SHOULD LOOK INTO THIS, TOO.

 

[000Robert]

I guess it boils down to what you call a chip. The edge of a razor blade will probably look chipped if you magnify it enough.

[Marc H]

Has anyone tried fine grit oil stones, or whetstones for this alloy?

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

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