Shun knife Bess (Edge On Up) sharpness out of the box . . .
- This topic has 17 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 02/11/2020 at 3:11 am by
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That’s a nice set of knives.
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Quality Japanese kitchen knives are such a treat to use for food prep especially if you are used to the thicker, softer stainless that most of us probably “grew up” on. The Henckels, and Whustofs, etc. The sky is the limit (and price) when it comes to Japanese kitchen knives. Shun seems to be a very common gateway brand with decent quality. I have never personally had a Yu Kurosaki (although they look like a really nice piece from my brief google search).
I have latched on to both Takamura and Murata brands as a good blend of quality vs. price point but the available choices to us here in North America with the Global economy has really grown over the past decade or so. I used to travel a lot to Japan for work 25-30 years ago and a kitchen knife purchase or two during every trip was a must. It was almost as if they were a still a hidden secret at the time here in North America or at least purchasing them was.
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I haven’t used water stones in years and get as good as, or better results with the various combinations (depends on the goal as to which combination I use) of diamond stones, ceramic stones, lapping films and strops.
-Clay
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I haven’t used water stones in years and get as good as, or better results with the various combinations (depends on the goal as to which combination I use) of diamond stones, ceramic stones, lapping films and strops.
Thanks for the insight Clay. I’m certainly no expert but my approach, which works for me with the stones and accessories I have, after I’ve sharpened once and set my own bevels.
Diamond stones 400 through to 1500 -> Lapping films 6, 3, 1.5 . All edge leading after some brief initial scrubbing with the 400. I typically stop there as they will whittle hair at that point if I’ve been patient and thorough with each progression. Occasionally I will then strop with diamond emulsions on leather but typically I’m either pressed for time or too lazy and the edge is refined enough for my liking and usage.
The Japanese Kitchen knives I own vary between VG10, R2, Aogami Blue #1, and Aogami Super steels. I run primary bevels only. Nakiri @ 14dps. Gyuto, Santoku and larger Petty @ 13 dps. Sujihiki, and smaller Petty @ 12dps. All of mine have a 50/50 bevel which I ensure before I purchase because it makes it easier for me to sharpen without altering the bevel too much. You really have to read before purchase because some can be made with other bevel ratios like 80/20 or 70/30. I do have one Sujihiki with a single bevel which is probably really considered a Yanagiba from my understanding.
The ones in VG10 are my wife’s and the rest are mine 🙂
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My view..
1. It’s all about the steel and especially the careful heat treatment …. check out what Jay Fisher does with 440C (great website, even though he comes across as an ass)
2. Shun is my goto but they are commercial which needs to sell to Willy Sonoma at $100 for resale at $200+. You get what you pay for. Sort of Sam Adam’s not willing to make an excellent IPA to sell retail at $16 a six pack, not their biz model
3. When it comes to sharpening, IMO NO ONE pays as much attention to the apex as WEPS does with many grits under jig control. I am can put a scalpel edge on a POS knife (Cutco and the like) but it will not hold up for 2 days cause the steel/treatment is crap. You get what you pay for.
4. IMO, commercial and even small shops cannot spend 30+ minutes sharpening a knife thru 10+ grits like we do. They do a quick controlled grind. Good cooking takes time to bring the best out of anything.
Never liked Global either, lousy cold handle, unimpressive steel, fancy marketing also turns me off.
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I posted a micro video of an Aritsugu chef’s knife I received as a gift from my sister, who bought several knives at their shop in Kobe. The video is of the edge as new out-of-the-box. The video shows me sliding along the edge and rocking from side to side to show the edge geometry. I estimated the angle at the very edge as about 6 dps, 12 inclusive, with convex shoulders. Incredibly sharp, but as you see in the video, not what we would call a pristine edge. Under magnification it’s ragged and full of what we would call defects. With such low bevel angles, the ragged edge brings new meaning to the term “toothy.”
Another comment I have about this knife is that the edge was so thin it would flex when I would press my thumbnail against it in a sideways direction. This is what you see at the edge of a straight razor when sharpened properly, using the thick spine as the angle fixture. The one cheapy razor I have comes out to about 7 dps when sharpened that way.
Thanks for your comments Readheads. Not all of us can afford $400+ each for a Japanese knife or full set of higher quality set of Japanese kitchen knives. I’m sure there are great knives available with good steel for a reasonable cost, but I would think more often you get easily hosed with the unknown or off brands if they are lower cost.
I started years ago when we first got married with a set of Wusthofs knives which for many years they served me well along with my Chef’s Choice knife sharpener! Then I forayed into my first set of Japanese Global kitchen knifes. They were quite a step up from the heavy German made Wusthof’s. I still own the Wusthof’s set but use them mostly as vegetable “choppers”.
True, the Shun knives are a commercial but they really fill the average home Chef’s needs especially price wise and VG10 steel yet. I paid $329 off Ebay (New) for their 3 knife starter set (-$50 cheaper than Amazon). My Premiers are also Damascus steel and I appreciate their handles and the look of the Damascus steel as aesthetics are an important factor to me.
The Shun brand was recommended to me by a few of the very experienced members here and it was a good call on their part. For custom made in Japan knives, for the price, balance, look feel in the hand they do a great job, have super sharp factory edges, along with the great handling from their thin lightweight blades. They just look “first class” to me. I use a knife block, but I’m thinking of getting one of this magnetic knife wall strips, just so I can show the Shuns and my other Japanese brands off . . . :o).
For those interested in getting into decently priced custom made Japanese cutlery check out the selection of Shuns on Amazon. I luv their marketing. They have so many styles and models . . . Its like looking at “knife porn” for me. Check out the look of their Damascus 8 inch Premier Chef knife (below) with their PakkaWood handles. This 8 inch Chef comes as one of the 3 knives in their $379 starter set. Japanese knives are quite a step up from the heavy German made steels. For those of you looking to make a step up at a reasonable cost . . .
- Amazon: Premier 8-inch Chef’s knife will quickly become the most used knife in the kitchen; lightweight, agile and offering an extremely comfortable grip, users never want to set the knife down.
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TC thanks for posting that vid you made years ago. I found the same imperfections in the steel from collectors I own in even in the $750-1000 cost range.
Was the tip of the knife in your vid designed like that or just a poor grind?
My high end CRK’s come with a convex factory grind that only takes them a few seconds to put on as I’ve watched them do it on the Chris Reeves factory tour on Youtube. But they still come with a super sharp edge. I don’t convex them when I re-profile them on the WE but I’m thinking about doing that process after watching your vid on conveying the edge on the WE (I think that was you). I know Clay has one up on Youtube. I think CRK is looking to but on more of a working edge as a trade off for it’s man owners that use them a lot heavier than I do. But everything’s a trade off as I can put on a WE super sharp edge which only microchip faster because of the hardness of their premium CPM S35VN steel.
I sent in last week two Shuns for their free lifetime factory sharpening service. It will be interesting for me to use my digital microscope on them out of the box to see the imperfections in their steel. I also want to see the Bess numbers on their edge sharpness out of the box. I did notice on a higher priced Benchmade I just freshened the edge on, it too had a good amount of imperfections and dimples in their steel when I viewed it under a 30x lighted loop.
I’ll resharpen them myself next time around. I just wanted a baseline on how Shun designs their edges, so I can try and replicate it.
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TC,
Very interesting, have you put the WEPS to work on this knife. 6 DPS is razor blade land. It would be cool to see some before/after mag shots of the edge.
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