Nicholas Angeja

[Nicholas Angeja]

This is great!! it’s great to see someone doing their homework.
so…. for chef’s when it comes to knives….
Western Style
These blades are Japanese made, but in a Western style. Often with a full tang, welded bolster and Western style handle riveted to the knife, but very commonly with a traditional Japanese handle. All of these knives will be sharpened with a double bevel (sharpened on both sides).

Gyuto
Translates to “Cow Sword” this is a multi purpose knife with a slight meat cutting bias. The shape is based on the classic European chef’s knife. This is the knife that will do everything for you. Sizes start at 180mm and can reach a ridiculous 360mm with 240mm being the most common. A Gyuto with a traditional Japanese handle is called a Wa-Gyuto.

Santoku
This is also a multi purpose knife, but with a slight vegetable bias. Santoku means ‘Three Virtues’ or ‘To solve Three Problems’. The virtues or problems are slicing, dicing and mincing. Santoku is usually found in 160mm – 190mm lengths. These are more and more popular in Western kitchens due to the unique shape and smaller easy to handle size.

Paring
A smaller knife (100mm- 135mm) often used for cutting in the hand in stead of a cutting board. Great for peeling and smaller jobs.

Petty/Utility
This is the knife for smaller jobs that are done on a cutting board. Think slicing shallots, cutting herbs and boning smaller cuts of meat, fish or birds. Petty knives are making more appearances in professional kitchens lately.

Sujihiki
“Flesh Slicer” would be this knife’s name in English. It does just what the name suggests. Roast beef/turkey, raw meats, fish, all flesh really is a Sujihiki’s specialty.

Nakiri
A Nakiri is a vegetable knife. They are under utilized in the Western kitchen. The flat blade is meant for push/pull chopping of vegetables. Since the entire flat edge of the knife strikes (actually I should say ‘kisses’) the cutting board at once the chance of accordion vegetables is greatly reduced. Accordion vegetables are still connected like paper dolls after one finishes cutting them. You can pick them up and squeeze together like an accordion. To truly understand the benefit of a Nakiri make onion soup when you first bring this knife home. It will all be clear after the onions are chopped.

Honesuki
A Honesuki is a poultry boning knife. I’ve seen them called ‘Tokyo Poultry Knives’. They make quick work of chicken, pheasant, duck and turkey butchery. As a side bonus they are also great for peeling round fruit. Just the right shape.

Japanese style
These are traditional Japanese blades. They have a single bevel (sharpened on one side), a half tang and a wooded handle. Some call these knives sushi blades. Since Japanese style blades are sharpened only on one side they are extremely sharp and easy to maintain. With a strong bevel on the front side and a concave back side these knives are effectively non-stick and slice through food with incredible ease. Single sided blades are generally right handed, but left handed models are available.

Usuba
Usuba translates as ‘flat edge/blade’. The flat blade is meant for push/pull chopping of vegetables. Since the entire flat edge of the knife strikes (actually I should say ‘kisses’) the cutting board at once the chance of accordion vegetables is greatly reduced. Accordion vegetables are still connected like paper dolls after one finishes cutting them. You can pick them up and squeeze together like an accordion. To truly understand the benefit of an Usuba make onion soup when you first bring this knife home. It will all be clear after the onions are chopped.

Deba
This is the first knife a sushi chef uses. It is for filleting fish and butchery with boneless meat. Deba means ‘short fat tooth’ to describe the shape. Don’t let the shape and weight of a Deba fool you, they are nimble and precise.

Yanagiba
A Yanagiba is a slicers dream. They are graceful, capable of amazing sharpness and sexy. Yanagi means ‘willow leaf’ and refers to this knife’s long narrow shape. Traditionally used for slicing sashimi they are equally at home with a roast beef, ham or calf’s liver. Yanagiba are originally from the Kansai (Osaka) region. Once you go Yanagiba you’ll never go back.

Kiritsuke
A single sided chef’s knife. These knives are designed to do most of the cutting tasks in a kitchen. A Kiritsuke can be used like a Usuba and Yanagiba.

My only other suggestion is make sure you take into account the type of steel each knife is made from, it should influence the type of sharpening media you use. Cooks get all excited for very hard steels but for the most part they can’t afford to buy them, so they talk about it often.

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gregory mais

[Nicholas Angeja]

I’m a chef by trade also, my only insight is cook’s are ruthless with their knives. They smash their knives on cutting boards, they drag their knives on cutting boards, and many of us don’t even understand how to sharpen, so this means you have the potential for a lot of business:) Most kitchen cutlery is “soft” steel and the diamonds stones are great for that, you’ll find yourself working the belly of the blade especially on chef knives a lot more then anywhere else on the edge because they drag or pull their knifes left to right when for example chopping herbs. you’ll be working the coarse 50/80 stones a lot or whatever your coarsest stones are:) I personally wouldn’t even bother with the stops, unless I know the person receiving the knife will appreciate it. cook’s like to use a steel and more often then actually necessary and will end up destroying the edge the first day after you sharpen their knives. Sharpening demos are great and people will love being able to see the wicked edge, if your able to show people the benefits of a sharp knife, proper care, how to sharpen, what a burr feels like, and if you can show them pictures of what an edge looks like under magnification, in my experience of doing demos people really enjoy the visual aspect of learning. Good luck dude.

[Nicholas Angeja]

I’ve got a few blue carbon steel knives and I’ve been checking out the blue carbon steel shun your talking about for a while now:)I have fallen in love with Blue carbon, takes an edge very well, holds it extremely well, and it’s actually pretty easy to sharpen compared to white carbon and powder steel in my experience. I don’t recommend getting a blue carbon boning knife at all, because carbon knives are more brittle then stainless especially when making contact with bone or scraping at bone. The only reason I haven’t invested in a shun blue carbon is I really don’t like the feel of the handle, it gets very wide by the heel of the handle and the handle is too long for my small hands. Great steel and Shun makes some beautiful knives that’s forsure

[Nicholas Angeja]

This thread is a wonderful example of the attention to detail and the professionalism of the owners, employees, and the loyal wicked edge users who make owning a wicked edge knife sharpener a happy community. Cheers for the comments, and pay it forward to the next batch of rookies who flood in to purchase WEPS or accessories in the future and get frustrated when they don’t get their toys immediately.
The way I see it is the more hype and popularity the WEPS gets, the better the sharpener will be, the more accessories become available, and more information will be available on the forum, which makes us all a better knife sharpener:)
Got a couple of new Kershaw’s yesterday and the factory edge isn’t up to my standard so i’m off to smoke a fatty and continue to break in my new ceramic stones:)
Nick

[Nicholas Angeja]

Well fella’s, I’m having a different problem with checking the hair whittling edge on my knifes. For the past 10 years I have been shaving my head and the wife is getting tired of me sneaking up behind her and snatching a couple of hairs from her head. :woohoo: I’ll have to stop that for a while or my arm will be too sore to sharpen any knives. She said she would cut off a few but lets face it, it’s just not as fun that way. 🙂

lol, less painful way, just take the hairs off her hairbrush, I usually brush or comb my hair to acquire a hair, it’s less painful that way

[Nicholas Angeja]

w

I’ve also read in various posts by other people (amongst them Clay) that it can be recommended to back off 1-2 degrees when stropping with leather strops to avoid rounding the edge. (So if you sharpen at 20 degrees, then when switching to stropping with leather, you change the angle to 21 or 22 degrees.)

This is actually backwards… Clay lowers the angle 1 or 2 degrees… so he would drop to 18-19 from a 20 deg. angle.

That being said, while I have tried this, I still get a better edge raising the angle to strop… even though it contradicts the microscope photos Clay has posted… and my own attempts at stropping at a lower angle. (So use what works for you). 🙂

I think pressure is a big culprit (at all levels, but especially the finishing stones and strops), that’s probably what I’d look at first.

All the suggestions so far are good. Ken has a point… you might try testing your edge before you strop, and see what it’s like.[/quote]

This is great info.
I use each and every suggestion that’s been posted on this thread.
Here is my technique
1.Consistency is key
2.use light even pressure
3.remove burr often (I use a balsa stick which i run along the edge)
4.take your time and pay attention

I managed to use diamond stones 1000 grit, balsa 14&10 paste and leather 5&3.5 paste strops to get a hair whittling edge. I do the same thing as you but I also create a large burr at 1000 grit on both sides, removing burrs with balsa stick and then continue to work both sides at 1000 grit using very, very light pressure. I clean the burr again with the balsa stick gently a couple times. I then switch to my 14&10um balsa strops and after a few strokes I test the edge at several points with a hair, at this point some places are hair whittling. From there I feel the edge by constantly test the edge with a hair and strop with balsa till the entire edge is hair whittling before moving to the leather strops.

I just received micro fine ceramics and nano cloth strops with 1&.25um sprays but have not yet been able to get a hair whittling edge, but I know its because the ceramics are still new and being worked in. It should be possible to get a hair whittling edge on the ceramics in the near future though.

Its a great feeling to get a knife that sharp, have fun dude.
Nick

[Nicholas Angeja]

Worth a try for sure. I don’t for see any issues. In my own stropping kit I reserved 14/10 micron paste for balsa, 5/3.5 paste for leather, and 1/0.25 spray on nano cloth. I really like my balsa strops and the edge I’m able to get with them, totally worthwhile.

[Nicholas Angeja]

Great to hear, I also attempted to input a few knives a week or so ago with no result and was wondering if I should just attempt to re-add them, now i know.
thanks Mark.

[Nicholas Angeja]

I have a 30x loop and regret not getting one with a light. I also like having a microscope, i use a Veho 400x but it can be tricky at times and a little frustrating to get pictures but I love the detail I do get to see.

[Nicholas Angeja]

Hey Chris,
As to knife steels, there is a huge amount of information online. Use you favorite search engine. I don’t know of one place that I could send you that covers it all.
Here are a few that I have read, but there are many more.

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/blade_materials.html

http://www.simplytoolsteel.com/knife-steel-comparison-chart.html

Also both Bladeforums.com and Knifeforums.com have extensive discussions about blade steel.
Go to either site and search on the name of the steel you want to know about. I have not yet dones that and not found a great deal of information.

If you know a type of steel you can find its composition and compare it to other steels here:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php

The you probably want to know about heat treating and hardening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Matter/Hardening.html

http://www.primitiveways.com/Steel%20heat%20treatment.html

http://www.asminternational.org/content/ASM/StoreFiles/ACF180B.pdf

Now these are just a few that I have bookmarked. There is a huge amount of information out there. There have been volumes written on the subject and the study of steels and their behavior and properties is a field of study and an entire science unto itself. You could also visit your local library and find a wealth of information on this field of study.

In other words, you just need to dig and spend some time, there are far more than a couple of good resouces, and no single source that I know of is complete.

AWESOME!!!!! you are my idol Phil!!!!!!

[Nicholas Angeja]

I guess my biggest concern would be the billing of the credit card for the full amount, but no product is shipped. I am not a fan of this practice. If someone at WE could shed some light on this topic I would like to hear from them. Until then I will sit on the side line and wait to see how Stephens’ issue is delt with.

Wayne…

I understand, but instead of waiting why not check out the place Ken Schwartz’s works, they seem to have quite a bit of stuff in stock, i’m contemplating purchasing the water stones to avoid the wait but then I need to suck up the custom fees:( There are a few places that have the WEPS in stock, you just need to look around

[Nicholas Angeja]

Stephen and Wayne,

Here is my experience with the wicked edge crew. I ordered my wicked edge about two years ago when it was on a one month back order. After one month I got notice that there was some issues with quality control and it would be another month. At this point iwas aggravated but what can you do but grin and bare it? So at sixty days I got another notice that it was going to be another month and I lost it. I wrote to both Kay, and Clay to express my displeasure. The bottom line was they weren’t going to put outa product that they were not 100% satisfied with. They were having some issues with the factory at the time and were behind on many orders but they were taking all of the abuse put forth by who knows how many people so that the product was perfect! Remember even though the company has been around a few years it is still basically a small family owned and operated business that is trying to keep up with a rapidly growing demand. Anyway I waited my 90 days and got my sharpener and have neve regretted the waiter the purchase. Perfection may take a while but when it finally gets here it is always well worth the wait! Trust me when I say that Clay and crew are busting there butts to get it out as fast as they can and with the best quality possible!

Very well put!!!!

Patience guys, it sucks having to wait but the guys at the wicked edge wont screw you. There are a lot of these stories on the internet and they seem to be popping up more and more…. ever wonder why?? the wicked edge is blowing up and gaining popularity and the reason they are growing is because they don’t put out a shitty product. I live in canada and getting the wicked edge and accessories can be tedious at times, so i understand your frustration, and I reassure you they have never screwed me or sent me a shitty product. In another five years there might be WEPS kits in every department store but if we want to have the most current toys right now, there are sacrifices we all have to make.

Anyways, i’m positive one of the wicked edge employees or clay himself will see this post and respond. My .02

[Nicholas Angeja]

My “tricks” for getting and keeping a hair whittling edge is consistency. I cook for a living and the knives i’m referring to are for that purpose. They take a beating during everyday use, but they are cared for and respected as extensions of my hand. I track detailed accounts of my sharpening in terms of mounting settings, angle degree, grit progression, lowest grit ever used, and 400x pictures of the heel, belly, and tip of each knife before and after each sharpening.

When sharpening I test the sharpness of an edge after .4 micron ceramic stones with a hair at several places along the edge to determine if its hair whittling from there I progress to 14um balsa where I stay till the entire edge is hair whittling sharp from heel to tip from left side to ride side. Then I progress to leather, nano cloth strops to .25 micron. I determine when to change grits using a microscope, making sure the scratch patterns are consistent and testing the edge with a hair.

Then on a daily basis with general use I strop my knives on a blank leather strop or blank balsa strop at work depending on the condition of the knife. I have a two sided free hand strop that I’ve made which has cow leather on one side and balsa wood on the other side (basically a fine and course side). I found a huge change in the quality of an edge i could maintain this way.

This works great for me, the effort I put in maintain my knives is minimum but I get the results I really don’t need in a kitchen environment. lets just say a few people have cut themselves by just “looking” at my knives:P I have mirrored bevels, insane edges, and it makes work so much more enjoyable.

[Nicholas Angeja]

I experience dirty micro chipping on a white carbon 61-64 HRC using diamond stones, it was all my fault for apexing the edge with diamonds though. I did manage, at the time, to get a edge on that Deba using the diamond stones and finishing with balsa and leather strops, but I had to be very gentle with the diamond stones. I personally don’t recommend trying to refine an edge with diamond stones on chippy steel or anything about 62 HRC IMO.

That is a bit of a generalization, and should be taken as that rather than a hard and fast rule. As just one example I have done some ZDP 189 at between (different blades) 65 to 67 Hrc. I have not yet seen or had cause to believe that there was any micro chipping caused by using all of the diamond plates from 100 through 1000.
Much depends on the steel you are talking about, probably more so than the hardness. It also is dependent on your technique. BTW, the ZDP 189 was sharpened to a burr with the 100 grit dimonds and apexed at every grit from there on up.

Possibly I did not completely understand what you were saying though. What do you mean when you say “trying to refine and edge”, in the context of your statement. I guess that I wouldn’t consider any edge really refined after the 1K diamonds. Granted, some folks love that edge, but refined… nope!

Phil[/quote]

Hey there Phil,
Learning very quickly you are always on the ball. You’re right… It was a very vague and generalized comment that i made, allow me to clarify my comment. I was referring to my experience with white carbon (aka aogami 1 (just for you Phil the composition of white carbon steel C 1.25-1.35; W 1.50-2.00; CR 0.30-0.50; Mn 0.20-0.30; P 0.025; S 0.004; Si 0.10-0.20)) I’ve also found a vague breakdown of ZDP 189 (C 3.00; W 1.50; V 0.10; Cr 20.00; Mo 1.30; Mn?; P?; S?; Si? Not trying to give anyone a chemistry lesson but Phil is right when he said it depends on the type of steel verse the HRC rating. As I am learning you can have the exact same knife from the same brand but the hardness could be 1-3 points different because of the slightly different heat treatments. The main reason I found White steel super chippy was the low amount of chromium that adds toughness to a steel and not having vanadium added at all. Don’t get me wrong the persistence of tungsten is what helps white carbon from being so brittle after heat treating but it can only do so much. The other issue with my example is the knife in question is a hand made knife where a blacksmith in some little dark hole with a fire burning is gauging the temperature of the steel by color or experience, which leaves a lot of room for error. The ZDP 189 you offered is a powder super steel that is usually only used in a “lab” production setting where everything is controlled with precision (hence the reason those knives are usually stupid expensive).

In terms of using diamond stones on “hard” steels I still don’t support it. I don’t see the point of taking a Ferrari for a drive on a snowy day, but hey if you got it and want to its all yours. Like I said I was able to polish and get an edge on the knife using diamond stones, anything is possible with determination and your right it involved a lot of changes in my technique and how i was sharpening. What I meant by “Refined” was an apexed edge free of chips and fractures, uniform at the apex in my case at 400x magnification. I really guess the term refined means something different to everyone, I am working on getting the japanese water stones this year so I can also understand what you mean by “refined.” Have you had a chance to see the apexed edge of your zdp 189 under big magnification at various grits? i’d be interested to see pictures.

I hope this helps clear some stuff up Phil, I hope I don’t come off as standoffish. Not my intention:(

[Nicholas Angeja]

I experience dirty micro chipping on a white carbon 61-64 HRC using diamond stones, it was all my fault for apexing the edge with diamonds though. I did manage, at the time, to get a edge on that Deba using the diamond stones and finishing with balsa and leather strops, but I had to be very gentle with the diamond stones. I personally don’t recommend trying to refine an edge with diamond stones on chippy steel or anything about 62 HRC IMO.

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