The 50/80 stones and the subject of raising a burr

[Jamey Howard]

I’ve seen people mention that you shouldn’t raise a burr with the 50/80 grit stones. That’s fine but how do you know when to stop?

Say you’re using the 50 grits… If you’re not going to raise a burr, how do you know when it’s time to move to the 80 grits? And the same goes for the 80s – how do you know when it’s time to move to the 100 grits?

Sorry if I’m being a simpleton 🙂

[cbwx34]

First, save the 50s for when you’ve got some serious metal to remove. For example you want to reprofile an edge down several degrees, or make a major repair.

On the 50s, I try and stop when I’m about 1/16 in. away, maybe a tad less, from the edge. Mark the edge with a Sharpie (marker), and watch as it disappears.

I then switch to the 80s, remark the blade if needed, and stop when I just see a few lines in the marker cleaned off to the very edge, if that makes sense. I usually look through a loupe (magnifier) to check this. Then switch to the 100s and start cleaning up the grind marks… that will also usually reach the edge.

[Jamey Howard]

Cheers. I didn’t have a loupe so have just bought a cheap 10x LED one off eBay, god bless that site.

Yep, I do have a few knives I want to reprofile so won’t be using the 50s on everything but definitely for some things.

[Geocyclist]

Curtis couldn’t have said it better.

All I can add is: just try the 100’s. If you don’t see improvement and a burr then go back to the 50/80’s. It doesn’t hurt anything.

If you do raise bur it’s OK. Just spend more time with 100/200’s. The only problem I am aware of with raising a bur is the edge will have deep scratches/teeth in it. This can be smoothed out but is less work to avoid it in the first place. I try to force myself to spend more time the 100/200’s after using the 50/80’s to help get out the deep scratches anyway.

[Phil Pasteur]

If I was asked… I would say that using the 50/80 diamonds should be the exception. In fact, I have never had a set of the 50/80 plates, even though I have a very wide range of stones for my WEPS. I have done some serious reprofiling with the 100 grit diamonds. I have thought, on certain knives, that something a little more coarse would be nice. I think that was more out of impatience rather than a real neccessity. In the long run, I tend to think that the time saved in cutting metal with the 50/80 grit plates may be offset to a great extent by the amount of work that has to be done in getting rid of the gouges that they leave.

In any case, if you feel that you need to use the 50/80 plates, Curtis method sounds like the way to go.

My 100/200 plates are well worn now after a few hundred knives. When I ned to replace them, I will be happy to get another set just like them.

Of course, anything that I would use the 50/80s for, I take to the belt grinder. A couple of minutes with a 120 or 180 grit belt and I am ready for the WEPS.:evil:

Phil

[cbwx34]

Of course, anything that I would use the 50/80s for, I take to the belt grinder. A couple of minutes with a 120 or 180 grit belt and I am ready for the WEPS.:evil:

Phil

Cheater….. :silly: :silly: :silly: 🙂

[Ken Buzbee]

I have done some serious reprofiling with the 100 grit diamonds. I have thought, on certain knives, that something a little more coarse would be nice.

Me too. Currently reprofiling my S35VN Native down to 26° inc and it took around 1000 strokes on the 100 stones. I’m seriously thinking about the 50/80 set right now.

Ken

[Ken Buzbee]

Well, persistence paid off. I did eventually get this baby down to 26° inc.

It was way harder than I’d expected. It’s my first S35VN blade but it seemed much more wear resistant than I’d expected S35VN to be. The only stones that were really a problem were the 100s. I wondering if they have worn more than the others…. Hmmm…

At any rate, Bob is now sending me a set of the 50/80s for the next reprofile. (thanks Bob!)

And I know just the knife for them……..

Ken

[Mikedoh]

Please let us know how that edge holds.

[Ken Buzbee]

Please let us know how that edge holds.

Will do. I didn’t polish it. Only ran it through the ceramics but it’s a great edge, starting off.

Ken

[Matthieu Methot]

I have had the 50/80s for a little while now and couldn’t be happier. I don’t think it takes that much time to get the scratches out. With the WE 100 passes only takes a minute and I find after only 50 passes on each 100 then 200 I can’t tell I used the 50/80 stones.:)

[Phil Pasteur]

I have had the 50/80s for a little while now and couldn’t be happier. I don’t think it takes that much time to get the scratches out. With the WE 100 passes only takes a minute and I find after only 50 passes on each 100 then 200 I can’t tell I used the 50/80 stones.:)

Matthieu,
Thanks for the report. I will preface this with.. if you are happy, that is all that counts.
Still, I would like to know how you make the decision that you can’t even tell ??

Do you use any magnification to “not tell”?
What level of refinement do you try to attain with your edges… your bevel? Meaning what is the finest grit that you use?

The whole idea of letting people know of your results is framing the answer so that others know what you mean.
There are lots of conversations going on about getting the ultimate edge refinement and a mirror bevel. In general sharpening discussions, these questions migh be irrevelent, In the context of the WEPS, they become critical.

From my experience, even the 100 grit scratches will take a long time to remove. In fact, after careful attempts at removal, they will reveal themselves when one is trying to do everything through multiple grits to remove all visible evidence of scratches.

Now, if one is sharpening for a great edge and never goes past the 1K grit diamonds and some stropping,nothing I asked about matters. That is a very worthy goal!! But, I would ask that you define that for us a bit…

Just trying to get to your frame of reference… otherwise the statement “I can’t tell” is real hard to intrepret.

At any given time, there are many times the number of visitors here as hard core members, they also need to know.

THX
Phil

[Phil Pasteur]

Well, persistence paid off. I did eventually get this baby down to 26° inc.

It was way harder than I’d expected. It’s my first S35VN blade but it seemed much more wear resistant than I’d expected S35VN to be. The only stones that were really a problem were the 100s. I wondering if they have worn more than the others…. Hmmm…

And I know just the knife for them……..

Ken

Hey Ken,
A couple of things to ask…
Just curious, why did you want to go to 13 degrees per side on S35VN.. just wondering. If the answer is…because I can. That is good with me.

Second. I have a Native in S35VN. I took it to 17 degrees per side. I love the way it sharpened and polished. The 100 grit plates that I have…very well worn, did OK… though took a bit longer than S30V, not much though. Of course I was not going nearly as acute as you did. Back then I had no ceramic stones for the WEPS, I just used the Diamonds to 1K and Choseras through 2K and stropped with 1 and 0.5 micron on leather. Damn thing looks pretty fine and cuts well.

I rotate my EDC knives, and I am not that fond of the action on the Native… so it is not used as much as some others. I think it has been 6 months sice I sharpened it… and it has maybe 15 days of EDC on it.. Medium at worst use. It still shave arm hair… and cuts phone book paper any way I want it too.. easily. I know because I yanked it out and tried it a few minutes ago
🙂

Still curious… why 13 degrees per side… That is tough for S90V or ZDP 189…

Phil

[Matthieu Methot]

Do you use any magnification to “not tell”?
What level of refinement do you try to attain with your edges… your bevel? Meaning what is the finest grit that you use?

The whole idea of letting people know of your results is framing the answer so that others know what you mean.
There are lots of conversations going on about getting the ultimate edge refinement and a mirror bevel. In general sharpening discussions, these questions migh be irrevelent, In the context of the WEPS, they become critical. I’m sorry for the lack of details. I am new to forums and probably don’t have the best writing skills. I read this forum just about every day for tips and would feel a little guilty if I didn’t try to contribute something.:huh: I raise a burr with my 50/80 stones then proceed through all the diamond stones 50 to 100 passes per stone the last few passes on each grit with light pressure.The super fine ceramics are next then the micro ceramics. Then I change my angle 2 degrees lower in this case form 17 to 15 then start stropping with the 5/3.5 on leather light strokes then test with my dogs hair (short hair terrier) then back down to 17 degrees for my balsa strops with 1./0.5 diamond spray then back up to 15 degrees for a final strop with o.25/0.125 Cubic boron nitride. I use alcohol spray on all my strops and I have to say maybe a little to much my leather seems to be stiffening up which might not be so bad as far as rounding the edge with the soft leather is a concern for me.I check my edges with a 60x lighted lop like I saw in one of Clays posts. I get the mirror finish and cut dog hair but it’s not perfect I’m still learning. The few small scratches i see when I am done I think are contaminates from lapping my ceramics and my leather strops not my 50/80 stones.

[Ken Buzbee]

.
Just curious, why did you want to go to 13 degrees per side on S35VN.. just wondering. If the answer is…because I can. That is good with me.

That’s pretty much it, Phil. It’s my first S35VN and I’m curious. There’s a lot of talk out there that you can take “x” steel to “y°” and/or “z” grit/finish but those discussions may or may not reflect what you like or what you use your knife for. And I agree with your “point”, I would never recommend 26° to anyone looking for advice on this steel, in general.

I don’t usually classify my cutting as “hard use”. Maybe this angle and finish will do fine. If it’s horrible, I’ll probably try putting a “micro” bevel on it and go again.

It’s all just experimentation, and anecdotal at that. I’m not cutting 1000 pieces of rope to see what pressure the final cut needs.:cheer:

As to the Native itself. I know what you mean. I wander around in what I like about any given knife. There are things I like about other knives much more than the Native (locks, clips, blade shape) but the place the Native shines, for me, is the grip. It’s almost as good as the Manix 2 but easier to carry. It took me a long time to convince myself to get one. So far, overall, I’m pretty happy with it.

I guess we’ll see

Ken

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