Sharpening a Convex Edge Question

[mike]

Hi all!

So I watched Clay’s video where he sharpened the Sebenza to a convex edge a few times now and I just wanted to ask a clarification question:

So it seems like he puts the lowest angle first, say a 17, then puts on the highest, say a 20, then counts down by degress back to the lowest. So: 17, 20, 19, 18, 17. Then strops at the lowest angle (the 17). Is that correct?

I still trying to learn. Really enjoying my Wicked Edge. 🙂

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Hi all!

So I watched Clay’s video where he sharpened the Sebenza to a convex edge a few times now and I just wanted to ask a clarification question:

So it seems like he puts the lowest angle first, say a 17, then puts on the highest, say a 20, then counts down by degress back to the lowest. So: 17, 20, 19, 18, 17. Then strops at the lowest angle (the 17). Is that correct?

I still trying to learn. Really enjoying my Wicked Edge. 🙂

Hi and welcome to the forum. Remember we where all new in the beginning so ask as many questions as you have!
You have the basic concept. This info helped me go step be step my first few times. It really is very easy once done and leaves a beautiful edge!!!

http://www.wickededgeusa.com/files/Creating%20a%20Convex%20Edge.pdf

Remember have fun!!!

[Leo James Mitchell]

Well said Eamon! Add my welcome to this forum. All kinds of good help here. You are among friends!

Cheers
Leo

[mike]

Thank you, Eamon!

I followed the steps in the link you provided and it seemed ot work well, though the facets were still noticable after I stropped. Perhaps I just need more practice.

What confuses me still is the order of the steps in Clay’s video seems to be different from the order of the steps in the tutorial in the link you provided–unless I am mistaken.

Clay seems to go 17, 20, 19, 18, 17; the link instructed to work from lowest angle to highest (so it would be 17, 18, 19, 20, 17). Maybe it doesn’t make a difference?

I am going to keep reading and tring to learn more about edges. This is a terrific forum for that!

[Leo James Mitchell]

Here is a simplified version from a post I made a couple of weeks ago. This works for me and is not complicated.

“Confusing with the two Leo’s eh! Sounds like the two tenors!
Whenever I have a knife to be used for survival or bushcraft, I try to present the strongest possible yet practical edge geometry i.e. a convex edge. Notice I said edge not grind. I took my ESEE 6 and using the diamonds paddles laid on a 17 dps edge; from there using the 400/600 and the 800/1000 paddles moved up with delicate strokes to 19 dps and again to 21 dps setting. Finally I used the leather strops through the pastes gently melding any shoulders I created into one smooth convex edge.
The result is a super sharp wedging edge that is strong enough to baton hard wood and delicate enough to bring up fine shavings on a fuzz stick. The convex edge is imitative of an axe edge giving both strength and keenness.
Hmmm! Clear as mud eh! The old noodle isn’t up to concise and clear anymore, but you get the idea. You get the advantage of convexing without having to grind down the whole geometry of the blade.Of course if you want to grind in a whole convex geometry like Virtuvoice(did I get his name right?)go for it and you will have an even stronger knife, but a lot of work that a klutz like me would not even try.For me, simple is good.

Leo the ancient as opposed to Leo the navigator! ROTFLMAO!”

I hope this helps you.

Cheers
Leo

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

When making the facets as light a touch as possible with as few strokes as possible. Then “blend” them in with your strops. It is okay to work the strops through all the angles. Just take your time and have fun!

[Leo James Mitchell]

Ah the Irish have a way with words! What Eamon says is more clear than my words. Have fun! Use a light touch and use the strops to gently blend the shoulders you created into that robust axe-shaped edge that is excellent for camp craft, batonning and general heavy duty. It may not make the best slicer for ripe tomatoes, but it is a wonderful all round edge.

Leo

[mike]

Thanks all for the helpful insights.

I guess I am still a little confused about the ORDER of angles: i.e. the progression of sharpening when trying to form a convex edge on the WEPS.

Maybe the order makes no difference?

Because in Clay’s video with the Sebenza he seems like he puts the lowest angle on first, a 17, then puts on the highest, a 20, then counts down by degress back to the lowest. So: 17, 20, 19, 18, 17. Then strops at the lowest angle (the 17).

But in the tutoial link Eamon posted, the instructions say the angle progression should be 17, 18, 19, 20. Then strop at 17 degrees.

Am I not being clear? Do you guys understand why I’m confused? Is the order of the angles sharpened when trying to produce a convex edge significant or does it not really matter what order then are done in?

Thank you again for helping out this noob, 🙂

[Leo Barr]

Just think of it as an arc it can be started from either end just try not to remove too much precious steel do it on a Thrift store knife or a Chinese knife first at least the steel is soft on the Chinese so there will be less wear on the stones ; but wear and steel chalks up to experience and making errors is how to learn and doing it helps to understand through experience.

Have you ever made a flow chart to prepare a cup of coffee there are quite a few steps for that it works out to about a side and a half of A4 paper .

The convex is not so bad and it is valuable experience for you on the WE.

Sometimes I think it is possible to be over technical when a little spontaneity is what is required its also more fun that way.

[cbwx34]

Thanks all for the helpful insights.

I guess I am still a little confused about the ORDER of angles: i.e. the progression of sharpening when trying to form a convex edge on the WEPS.

Maybe the order makes no difference?

Because in Clay’s video with the Sebenza he seems like he puts the lowest angle on first, a 17, then puts on the highest, a 20, then counts down by degress back to the lowest. So: 17, 20, 19, 18, 17. Then strops at the lowest angle (the 17).

But in the tutoial link Eamon posted, the instructions say the angle progression should be 17, 18, 19, 20. Then strop at 17 degrees.

Am I not being clear? Do you guys understand why I’m confused? Is the order of the angles sharpened when trying to produce a convex edge significant or does it not really matter what order then are done in?

Thank you again for helping out this noob, 🙂

Well, I don’t think you want to do it the way I highlighted in red, or you’ll be constantly sharpening the edge at every step. I would do the first way… set the bevel, (17), set the edge (20), then fill in the gaps.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Thanks all for the helpful insights.

I guess I am still a little confused about the ORDER of angles: i.e. the progression of sharpening when trying to form a convex edge on the WEPS.

Maybe the order makes no difference?

Because in Clay’s video with the Sebenza he seems like he puts the lowest angle on first, a 17, then puts on the highest, a 20, then counts down by degress back to the lowest. So: 17, 20, 19, 18, 17. Then strops at the lowest angle (the 17).

But in the tutoial link Eamon posted, the instructions say the angle progression should be 17, 18, 19, 20. Then strop at 17 degrees.

Am I not being clear? Do you guys understand why I’m confused? Is the order of the angles sharpened when trying to produce a convex edge significant or does it not really matter what order then are done in?

Thank you again for helping out this noob, 🙂

Well, I don’t think you want to do it the way I highlighted in red, or you’ll be constantly sharpening the edge at every step. I would do the first way… set the bevel, (17), set the edge (20), then fill in the gaps.[/quote]

The step in question is Clay’s instructions posted here on the site.
Curtis maybe you will want to bring it to Clay’s attention? I have done it both ways with great success! I found the written instructions were easier to follow step by step? Do as Leo suggest and have a little fun 😛

[Josh]

To answer your question (which I think Curtis did) the method you use to make multiple facets doesn’t matter… Your goal is to make 3-4 facets that are as even as possible, and then blend them all together with your 14um strop. But, I would suggest that you use clays method in the video, or one similar because the other method removes too much steel in my opinion.

Josh

[mike]

Thank you everyone for the really helpful responses. I am new to sharpening and trying to learn as much as I can on here (when the alligator doesn’t block me :angry: ) and watching lots of youtube videos–so what probably seems like pretty common sense stuff to the more experienced among you is new to me and I just wanted to be sure.

I’m also still trying to sort out the whole angle progression thing when it comes to sharpening; I remain unsure if and when it is important to the finished result.

I just did not want to do something out of sequence and ruin what I was trying to do (by following the tutorials I’ve been watching online). Needless to say, there is more than one way to sharpen a knife! So it can seem a little midboggling to a beginner.

Thanks again to everyone. I am really trying to learn to do it properly. It’s facinating and far more intricate and involved than I ever imagined.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Hi Mctrinket,
Yes who was to know that sharpening a knife could become so involved? The learning curve is a little tough in the beginning but will smooth out soon. Then you will get to it is just second nature to clamp up your knife set your angle and wham you will be done.
The best thing to do is come on here and ask questions. Remember we where all new once. No one that I know of here is ever bothered by answering a question? In fact this has been the most helpful forum I have used!
Try and not take it to seriously? I did in my quest for a perfect edge and I stopped having fun. I would advise if you feel that coming on just take a break and come back to it. I had to remember I bought the WE for enjoyment.
Now like Leo says I find a Zen like feeling when I sharpen and it just relaxes what could have been a bad day! Good luck!!! 🙂

[Gib Curry]

….. new to sharpening and trying to learn as much as I can on here ……. youtube videos…..I remain unsure …..the finished result.

….out of sequence and ruin …….more than one way to sharpen a knife……mindboggling to a beginner.

……I am really trying to learn to do it properly. It’s fascinating and far more intricate and involved …….

With a few minor changes…. I’ve written several posts very similar to this. I’m guessing a lot of us feel or have felt the same way….

It’s good to know where our “deficits” lie!! Everyday I see new ways to improve, gain confidence, gain competence, reduce incompetence!

I love it…. Everyday I search for and, hopefully, see new ways in which I’ve been incompetent! I’m not a pessimist nor am I too hard on myself (IMO 🙂 ).

I say that because I’m an optimist!! It means I’ve moved to the second step in learning…..

In the late 60’s or early 70’s I heard this theory of learning called The Four Stages Of Competence (Maslow?). It’s meant a lot to me. Very useful, to me. Goes like this:

THE FOUR STAGES

Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.

Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.

Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.

Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become “second nature” and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

~~~~

Sound familiar?

Keep your questions coming. So will I. It’s how the Unconscious Competent are inspired to help us newly Consciously Incompetent!! :whistle:

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

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"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

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