Experienced sharpener, can\'t get a good edge with WE

[Roy]

Hey guys, just received my wicked edge today in the mail. I was extremely excited to get it all set up and sharpen my first knife. I do want to add that I do consider myself a decent sharpener. I’ve gone through several systems over the years, and am able to get very sharp results using previous methods.

I started with sharpening my Spyderco Para 3. I set the angles on each side to about 19.5 degrees, and checking it with my angle cube. I started with a 600 grit stone, and advanced to an 800 and 1000. I do believe I am getting getting consistent contact with each stroke. I’m familiar with getting a burr and removing that burr before proceeding to the next grit but I will admit I haven’t worked with diamond stones like these before.

After working on the knife for quite some time, the edge won’t even cut through phone book paper. The edge does feel very odd to me, in between grits it doesn’t feel like a real clean edge that just “sticks” when you have a sharp knife. It feels rather “messy” if that makes any sense.

I’m really eager to get a good edge with this system, can you guys offer any help or quick suggestions?

Thanks!

[Marc H]

Welcome to the Forum Roy,  You did not specify which model you received. The W.E diamond stone do need to break in before you’ll see truly decent results.  This can be as many as 8 or 10 knives worth of sharpening.  There is a distinct learning curve with the W. E.  Almost everyone of us came to W.E. from some other knife sharpening experience.  Usually in search of a better edge.  The time it takes to get the hang of sharpening with the W.E., that is, the learning curve, is almost as long as it takes to break-in your stones.   Be patient and enjoy the learning experience.  You will see improved results as you gain sharpening experience and your stones continue to improve.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

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[tcmeyer]

Roy:

Assuming that you don’t have any set-up or mechanical problems, the answer is almost certainly that you’re not creating a true apex.  There are a couple of methods of checking for an apex: stone on one side only and feel for a burr on the opposite side, or use some form of visual inspection, either with a magnifying loupe or a handheld microscope.   The microscope in the link requires some sort of computer and display.  Any working laptop running Windows XP or newer will work.  If you don’t have one, someone you know probably has one they’d like to get rid of.

Another method of inspecting is to turning down your ambient lighting and shining a bright light down on the edge and watching for any reflected light coming off the edge.  A fully formed apex will not reflect light.  Keep in mind that a burr will also reflect light, making it look like you still have a dull edge.  You can generally remove any burr by just taking a few light, alternate strokes before inspecting.

The importance of creating an apex cannot be overstated.  And it needs to be created at your coarsest grit.  So if you’re starting at 600 grit, you need to reach the apex with that grit.  If you don’t, then all the effort you put into subsequent grits is completely wasted.

If you do create a full-length apex, even poor technique will produce a very sharp knife.  From my personal experience and from posts by other users, 600 grit makes for a very nice kitchen knife.  If you have a fully formed apex.

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[Marc H]

Roy if this is the first time your Para 3 is being sharpened to 19.5º bevel angle with the angle precision offered with Wicked Edge sharpeners, you are in essence profiling that bevel.  This profiling usually requires more effort the first time sharpening  a knife with the W.E. and may require that you start at a lower grit for less effort. As Tom, tcmeyer, wrote above forming a proper completely formed burr, along the entire knife edge, on both sides is crucial.  When sharpening a knife, any knife, on the W.E. for the first time it requires more time, effort, care and attention to detail. Subsequent touch-ups will be easier and faster because now the edge is profiled to 19.5º with your W.E.

Also, in you particular situation you are also using new, un-broken-in stones so the difficulty is compounded.  as I said in my earlier post, above.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

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[Jeff]

Roy, I’ve sharpened around 10 different Spyderco’s on the W/E.  Different steels in Paramilitary, Para3, Chaparral, or Manix models.  They were all closer to 16dps from the factory to start.  I agree with some previous posters.  I don’t think you are creating a true apex as you re-profile the edge.  Or if you are it isn’t along the entire length.  Don’t know what grit stones you have but I’d start with the coarsest grit you have since this is your first time doing the knife on the WE system.  If you duplicate your settings the next time you go to sharpen that knife you may not necessarily need to start as coarse depending on the condition of the edge.

Other than the extra time it takes in harder steels such as Maxamet and S110v, I’ve found I can get a hair whittling edge on all my Spyderco folders if I follow the key points from everyone as posted.

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[Roy]

Marc H wrote:

Roy if this is the first time your Para 3 is being sharpened to 19.5º bevel angle with the angle precision offered with Wicked Edge sharpeners, you are in essence profiling that bevel…..

Thanks for the help guys. I do believe this is the case. My other sharpening methods may have been off a bit on the angles and I think I am essentially reprofiling the edge when I use the WE system. I’m hoping I can zero in on all the issues and get these sharp and good looking edges I keep seeing people achieve!

[Author]

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