Diamond Stone Break-in Suggestion
- This topic has 16 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 11/14/2017 at 11:28 pm by
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Here’s a suggestion to help with the break-in of new diamond stones:
I recently bought a new compliment of Diamond Stone Paddles to use the new plastic handles. I know, like everyone else who was new to use the WEPS that there’s a “learning curve” and a “break-in period”. The break-in period can be sometimes upwards of 8 knives before we see pretty decent smooth, sharp results on par with what we’ve come to expect when using good worn broken in stones.
To minimize the step-back in edge quality while breaking in my new stones I have incorporated the new stones in the progression with my old stones. For example, I start with the “new” 100 grit stone then move on to the “new” 200 grit stone. Then I step back to the “old broken-in” 100 grit/200 grit pair to quickly clean up the edge and reduce the scratches to the level I’ve come to expect. Then I move up to the “new” 400 grit/600 grit combination and again repeat with the “old broken-in” 400/600 grit combo.
By co-mingling the new with the old stones I don’t sacrifice edge quality plus I don’t miss the opportunity to break in my new diamond stone set. It is more time consuming but the sacrifice in time is worth not sacrificing edge quality.
I suggest before you use the full life out of your older stones, get your replacements to incorporate the break-in period to a sharpening session. The time spent will beat having to find 7 or 8 “beater” knives to break-in your new set in with.
Marc
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Since these stones come in pairs, I’m wondering if you could just lightly rub e.g. the 100 grit stones together, and the 200 grit stones together, etc. (and I don’t know how many times is sufficient…25-50 strokes maybe?), or do it under a running faucet if you’d like? In other words, similar to what you do with waterstones, except in that case you’d usually have a sacrificial flattening stone, which as I understand it, isn’t really an issue with diamond stones.
LATE EDIT: The consensus is, Don’t rub diamond stones together. See replies below.
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graphite, first, Welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum. This is just my opinion, your suggested method would be rubbing abrasive against abrasive, the pointed sharp hard diamonds would scratch and cut grooves in the opposite paddle’s diamond stone and the base or substrate between and under the diamonds and possible knocking or prying loose diamonds. During the break in period we are repeatedly by use, wearing down, and smoothing or flattening , the sharp points while maintaining the integrity of the base or substrate. The desired result from the break-in period is an intact relatively uniform even abrasive across the entire surface of the diamond stones, with the sharp rough high spots worn down and evened out.
Lapping, which is what you’re suggesting, is done between two flat surfaces, or one uniformly abrasive flat surface and an uneven flat surface to improve it’s flatness.
Marc
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Thanks Marc. I have a bit different view (and i’m certainly not saying I’m right), which I’ll try to explain as best I can. First, my understanding from some photos I’ve seen is that it’s entirely possible you’ll have a few errant grits on a given diamond stone (for example a few 100 grit diamonds bonded on a 400 grit stone, I guess because of cross-contamination in the manufacturing process) and you WANT to shear those off with something other than your good knife, because they will stick up and scratch as you suggested. I suppose you could buy a block of tool steel to do this too. Also, it’s possible (again based on highly magnified photos I’ve seen) there will be a few diamonds with weak bonds that you WANT to break loose as soon as possible, but not on your knives.
I’m assuming the surface flatness tolerance of these stones is quite high (i.e. they are probably flat to a couple thousandth across the face), and there really isn’t a large deviation on how far the bonded diamonds stick up for a given grit stone, plus they are bonded in a random fashion with a tight spacing so that there aren’t any open channels. With that in mind, cutting grooves in the opposite paddle by rubbing them together would seem unlikely once you’ve taken care of the initial errant grits I mentioned above. In a similar way you can rub two 220 grit pieces of sandpaper against each other and not cut grooves or scratches in them, and not obliterate sections of the bonded adhesive.
So to me, it does seem like a reasonable approach, but I take your point and would love to hear if someone has tried rubbing diamond stones together to break them in, and whether the result was actually more like you have opined. You’ve raised enough doubt in my mind that I think I’d like to hear if someone has actually done this (and even better if they have before/after magnified photos) before I’d try it on my own stones. But I still think–if breaking them in on steel is mandatory–that I’d rather do it on a sacrificial piece of tool steel than on my knives, for the reasons I described earlier with brand new diamond stones.
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I too look forward to hearing from others on your suggestion to break-in new stones.
Based on my personal experience and I believe that of many others, new stones come with new WEPS for new WEPS users, that just bought their first new WEPS. The advantage of breaking in stones on knives VS a “piece of steel” as you suggest is while you’re breaking in your stones your also learning how to use your new WEPS and developing a sharpening technique while learning or gaining muscle memory doing the motions needed to properly use the WEPS to sharpen knives, while gaining practical experience. With a knife you have something tangible to see the results of your efforts and how both your stones and your technique are improving.
Marc
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I’m assuming the surface flatness tolerance of these stones is quite high (i.e. they are probably flat to a couple thousandth across the face), and there really isn’t a large deviation on how far the bonded diamonds stick up for a given grit stone, plus they are bonded in a random fashion with a tight spacing so that there aren’t any open channels. With that in mind, cutting grooves in the opposite paddle by rubbing them together would seem unlikely once you’ve taken care of the initial errant grits I mentioned above.
graphite, after thinking about what you wrote I’d like to present an example all though more exaggerated it is indeed what is happening at a microscopic level: Picture two hairbrushes rubbing bristles to bristles against each other. The bristle do fit down between each other and between the bristle tips, “the high spots”. They do not just brush across each other with tips riding on bristle tips. When considering diamond grit stones, 50 grit, 100, 200, 400, 600 grit, etc, these are rather large grit particles on the microscopic scale. When you place whether it’s a 50 grit or a 1000 grit stone surface to stone surface, of like size grits it’s exactly like the hair brush even though they’re manufactured to pretty exacting tolerance. There’s space between the diamonds and the diamonds when overlapping will fit down into those spaces. They don’t ride across the top or surface just knocking off the high spots. They’ll also, fit down in grooves between the diamonds gouging the substrate.
Marc
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…your also learning how to use your new WEPS and developing a sharpening technique while learning or gaining muscle memory doing the motions needed to properly use the WEPS to sharpen knives, while gaining practical experience.
I currently have an edge pro, and when I first got it I sharpened a number of knives over consecutive days and got the hang of it pretty well. But in reality I don’t need to sharpen knives all that often and the muscle memory thing faded away and I just can’t get consistently good results with the less frequent use.
For the wicked edge, part of what interests me is that it appears the sharpening process doesn’t have much reliance on muscle memory. Or certainly not in the way an edge pro, or freehand sharpening with waterstones, involves muscle memory. Am I wrong in that observation on the WE?
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The WEPS is easier in the sense that the knife is fixed or clamped stationary and the angle guide rods are fixed about the swivel end. So you don’t have to hold the knife in place while working on one side at a time like the Edge-Pro. The muscle memory deals with repeatable strokes and rhythm associated with consistent technique you’ll learn to maintain constant even contact and pressure between the stones length and the knife as you slide the stones up and down the angle guide rods while moving it along the knife bevel from end to end, using both arms together, alternatingly. Sort of like riding a bicycle with your arms. The muscle memory helps with consistency in technique.
Marc
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Thanks Mark76. If I do end up getting a WE, you guys have persuaded me not to try rubbing the diamond stones as a break-in technique.
But I have to say, now I’m more curious that ever, to have someone try this with before/after magnified photos on a few different grits to see the effect. I guess it’s the experimenter in me that wants empirical closure. It would be best done by someone with experience in more traditional diamond stone break-in techniques so they could compare not just the magnified photos, but the look and feel.
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I fear it will be a bit difficult to find somebody who wants to do this because I think the risk of damaging your diamond stones by rubbing them together is real. But if anyone wants to try: be my guest and please report your findings.
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
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Hi graphite, thanks for joining the forum. Please do not rub your diamond plates together. Even a few light passes will dramatically shorten the lifespan of the stones. I generally advise people to go through the break-in period patiently sharpening some old, beat up knives because of the following additional advantages:
- You can use the extra coarseness of the stones to re-profile some knives more quickly
- Your technique with the system will evolve and improve while the stones are breaking in so that you’ll be very comfortable with the system right around when the stones are starting to hit their stride
- You won’t be concerned with mistakes on old beat up knives so you can begin more confidently
-Clay
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I really appreciate all the replies. I’m glad I asked before trying it ;o)
MarcH: per your original post and alternating old with new stones (keeping in mind I don’t have a WE and am only going by videos I’ve seen), it seems that most people only use the the middle portion of the stones.
In some cases, even if the stone is bottomed out on the rod, you can’t use the upper portion (so you’d have to somehow keep track of which direction you mount the stone [maybe use a sharpie to label the stones as top and bottom?] and try to use it equally in each orientation). Or, they stop way short of using the lower portion of the stone.
So my question is whether you guys have figured out a way to (safely) maximize the use of the full length of the stone. In the videos, I’ve also noticed many people make very fast strokes, so at some point that would become potentially dangerous to try and get to the last millimeter at the bottom of the stone (if you accidentally went too far and the edge of the stone went past the edge of the knife…blood could result).
But given this tendency to only use the middle portion of the stone, I wonder if it would make sense to shorten the stones by maybe an inch at the top and bottom, and then add a small plastic stop to each end (while keeping the stone holder the same length so there’d be a 1″ “safe landing zone” at each end of the stone), which is elevated slightly above the stone surface. The plastic would not damage the knife edge when it hits it, and the stop would let you better utilize the full length of the stone. And it could even decrease the cost of the stones, which would be an added bonus.
Just a thought. Someone has probably already thought of this and it’s not practical for some reason.
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