Chosera Vs Ceramic Stones?

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

First off I want to give a big thank you to Bob at Oldawan!! Bob is a distributor for WE and had product in stock. He is great at customer service. He gave me the facts and then helped me make a decision based upon that. Great great guy!
Now? I can’t make up my mind weather I want to go Chosera or Ceramics? I’m looking for bragging rights here and want a mirror finish? I wasn’t really into the idea of using water? But if that is what I have to do? Okay?
Please let me know what you guys think I should do??

[cbwx34]

I’m looking for bragging rights here and want a mirror finish?

I’ve used Choseras freehand (not on the WE), but my .02…
Bragging rights & mirror finish = Chosera. It’s hard to beat the polish of a waterstone.

But it will be a bit more work and fuss! Not only water, but the stones are a different thickness, so you have to check angles more often. And of course a higher $$$. Bragging rights come at a cost hahaha! :blink: 😛

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Bragging rights & mirror finish = Chosera. It’s hard to beat the polish of a waterstone.
CBW34 do you think it is worth it over the Ceramics?

[Ken Buzbee]

Agree 100%. Chosera for polish, with those caveats.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Bragging rights & mirror finish = Chosera. It’s hard to beat the polish of a waterstone.
CBW34 do you think it is worth it over the Ceramics?

I don’t think you need them all… most of the lower work can be done with the regular stones/ceramics.

Whether it’s worth it or not… really depends on what you want. If you really want a mirror…. as scratch free as possible…. people shutter when you draw your knife :woohoo: then…………………. maybe. :whistle:

You can get a polished bevel with the ceramics and strops. If I’m not mistaken, most of the “mirror edges” Clay shows in photos are done that way.

I think waterstones do it a bit faster, and better, because the stone breaks down and polishes better. So part of the answer depends on the time you want to put into it, and if you really have to have that “perfect” finish.

Phil has written an article on this you may want to look at…
http://wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Use_of_Waterstones_by_Philip_Pasteur

… and there’s also some links on this page that talk about mirror finishes…
http://wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Stones_and_Strops

Some like how a waterstone feels when sharpening, and the feedback it provides.

So, honestly, whether it’s worth it or not, is up to you.

If it were me, and you want to try waterstones, I’d try just one stone… probably the 2000-3000, and see how you liked it. I’m not sure if whoever makes these can mix and match…. a 3000-5000 would be a good combo too, if they’d do it.

From that you can decide if you want even finer, and/or some like a little coarser for setting up the bevel/edge for the medium stones.

Also, as an alternative, you can get fine sandpaper… in the 2000-3000 range, that’ll help polish a bevel too.

[Geocyclist]

If its mirror finish you seek then Chosera is the way to go. No question.

Good advice given above, the 800/1k and/or 2k/3k set is coarse enough to pickup after the 1000 diamonds but still do a great job.

In the end you will end up with both. The ceramics are nice when you don’t want to spend the time with all the Chosera stones.

I was very pleasantly surprised with how little mess the water stones make. Soak them for 10 minutes, just in 1/4 inch of water, just enough to cover the stone but not up to the plastic platen. Let excess water drip off. Keep moist with about 3-5 drops of water per stone as needed. I keep a paper towel folded up on each side to catch any drips.

[Phil Pasteur]

If you want bragging rights type mirrored bevels, there is no comparison between the ceramic stones and the Choseras. I think you may find folks that would make you a set up. If so a good set would be 1K/2K after the diamonds. In the WEPS offerings I would go with the 800/1K set. These will give you a more polished edge than what most people consider a mirror. It is really quite amazing, for their grit size, what the 1K Chosera stones do for you! From there it is a matter of how much time and money you want to spend. There is a definite improvement in reflectivity and scratch removal even between the 5K and 10K.

So, I think you want a recommendation. If your goal is as you stated in your original post, and you have the money to do it, buy the whole set. If you can’t do it all at once, buy the whole set over time. Either way, you will get what you want and be very happy… until you look at your bank account :(:evil:

I have gotten to really like the set of four ceramics from WEPS. I often stop with those… and maybe a bit of stropping… so don’t take anything above to mean that I am belittling them. They have a definite place in the progression that I use for many knives. They simply are not polishing stones.

Phil

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Okay guys I can not seem to figure out how you do the “fancy highlight quotes” sp please bear with me?

Cbw34 thanks! I had no idea what I was biting off when I said “mirror finish”? I read your recommendations and I won’t be needing to use equipment necessary to measure reflective light? At least the OCD doesn’t seem to be that bad yet? Lol Simply I live and work at a gun range. With that comes a lot of knife guys. So we are always checking out the other guys stuff and comparing to see who has the “biggest one”? There is one guy who poo pooed the We when I said I want one and I would like to dazzle him.

I have the Pro Pack 1 and have talked with Bob at Oldawans and have pre ordered the choseras, but am now second guessing myself? I’m pretty sure when this is all said and done I will have bought everything ha ha ha. But for now and $$$ it is one or the other?

Phil thank you so much for your answer. I am curious and I think I missed something? Which one is not the “polishing stones”?

[Phil Pasteur]

Any of the Ceramic stones from WEPS… the 1200/1600 or the ones rated 1.4/0.5 microns.
They leave very nice precise, fine scratches, but don’t do much at all in the way of mirror polishing…at least to the degree that you indicate you are looking for.

Again, they do have a place. Before I started using them I would go from the 1000 grit diamonds…back to the 400/600 choseras then 800/1K etc to 10K. I now go through the ceramic progression and lots of times start with the 2K chosera stones… and up from there.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Okay you guys chosera it is! So from the 800/1000 diamonds to 2k-3k choseras? Then figure out if I really need to eat next week and order the 5k/10k? Decisions decisions????

[Phil Pasteur]

I would suggest the 800/1K choseras first. If you are going for scratch free… you will work your butt off to get there with the 2K. The 1K chosera is considered the work horse of the line. It is good for relatively fast scratch removal and goes a long way towards the reflectivity that you want. You will get thigs shiny going from 1K diamonds to 2K Chosera stones… but you will have scratches… The 800/1K will go a long ways towards getting rid of the bulk of them.

Have you Read Tom Blodget’s series on the Choseras?

First, check out the WIKI.. lots of good stuff there:
http://wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&Itemid=102

Second take a look at Tom’s writeup:
http://jendeindustries.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/wicked-edge-weps-chosera-stone-microscopic-progression/

Good info on the whole CHosera lineup!!

Don’t worry the rest fo the stones will be around for awhile… go ahead and eat next week.
😆

I think it took me around 8 months to rationalize my way through getting the whole set.

[Geocyclist]

I agree completely with Phil. My fist set of Choseras would be the 800/1k. These are the perfect step after the diamonds. And with stopping you can get good results. I have the full set but often stop at 3k.

[cbwx34]

I’ll defer to the guys that are using the Choseras on the WE, but you really need to go back to an 800g Chosera after the 1K diamond stone?

Maybe it’s not as efficient as using the larger stone freehand?

Even looking at the microscope pics, I’d think you could go 1K Chosera after the 1K diamond, at a minimum.

What if you could get a 1K/2K or 1K/3K combo made… would you consider that, or still stick with 800 first? (If so, which combo?)

You’ve got me curious.

Edit: Thought adding Tom’s “Grit Comparison Chart” might be a good reference for this topic…

[Phil Pasteur]

Curtis,
We have talked here before about how grit size only tells a ,sometimes small, part of the picture of how any given stone works. When I really want the nicest edge I can get, I go back to the 400 Choseras after the 1K diamonds. The scratch pattern from the Choseras is quite different. Also the scratches seem to not be as deep as the diamonds… and you get the polishing factor throughout the line. The coarser stones allow me to quickly get rid of the diamond scratches and prep for the next Chosera grit.

In theory one could go from the 200 grit diamonds to the 400 grit Choseras easily. The problem is that the don’t cut as fast as the diamonds, so you spend more time preping for the next level.

I mentioned that I think the 1K Chosera should be considered the work horse of the line. At that grit it cuts very well but still gets a very pretty edge. Many people go no further.

The 2K is a capable stone, but it does not cut nearly as fast as the 1K. This means you will sped a bunch more time getting rid of the 1K diamond scratches with it. I would say that a 1K/2K set on a paddle would be great, but if you are buying off of the shelf … for a first set, the 800/1K is the way to go. They will allow one to pretty quickly get rid of the diamond scratches and make the edge quite pretty.

Here are a couple of quotes from Tom’s writeup on the Choseras that I linked above. What he said reflects well my experience.

On a new knife, or one I am profiling for the first time, I would normally start my Chosera progression after the stock 600 diamond WEPS plate. And according to this grit comparison chart, it is a clear step backwards to go from the 600 WEPS (16 microns) to the Chosera 400 (30 microns). But as we saw in the WEPS stock progression of the 1K WEPS diamonds to the WEPS 1200 ceramic, the depth of the scratches on the diamonds can be pretty deep, and while the 400 Chosera stones may be coarser, they will not scratch as deeply – so your deepest diamond scratches begin to be exposed and worked out at much lower levels. The 400 (and 600) Choseras are also excellent for doing maintenance and routine repairs without using the diamonds. While I know not many people will be convinced to go back to the 400 or 600 Choseras, this step back actually excels the sharpening process as it moves forward.

There is an uncanny similarity to the 800 Chosera and the WEPS 600 Diamond finish at the edge of the edge. However, the polishing effect of the Chosera cleans up the face of the bevel, making it shine more. They are both very clean and ready for cutting at a basic sharpness level.

The 1K Chosera is a wonderful stone for a working edge. It is often referred to as the “incredible hulk” since it bleeds green You can see how smooth the bevel is, and how clean the edge of the edge is thanks to the effects of the paste.

And he says this about the 2K, but remember he has come up through 4 levels of the Choseras AND through the WEPS diamonds to 600:

The 2K Chosera may look a little rougher than the 1K Chosera, but the edge of the edge actually comes to more of a point than the 1K, and roughly equivalent to the WEPS Ceramic 1600 (although I think the 2K Chosera looks a little better). Again, the paste has enhanced the performance of the stone, and there is actually a very nice mirror on on the bevel at this point, although the actual scratches are not even enough at the microscopic level.

A lot of guys swear by their 2K Chosera as the best all-around working edge, and the 2K sweeping picture shows why.

Finally this, for the folks looking for that ultimate reflective mirror. Tom talks about what he calls the critical leap:

That brings us to the “critical leap” concept. In any progression, there will be a transition where the peaks and valleys are even enough to reflect the surface cleanly. Medium grits still create scratches that won’t reflect directly whereas polishing stones scratches will. This transition is the “critical leap”. On the Chosera progression, you have a visible mirror at the macro level by the 2K level, but not yet under the scope. The critical leap on the Choseras is therefore between the 5K and 10K levels.

I suggest that anyone interested in the Choseras should take the time to read through his entire article and look at the photos.
http://jendeindustries.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/wicked-edge-weps-chosera-stone-microscopic-progression/

So anyway, in light of the above and my experience, if somebody is buying the stones as WEPS has them mounted, the 800/1000 would be the first purchase that I would make if I was starting over. A 1K/2K would be a great option if someone will build them for you.

Phil

[Daniel Saucier]

Curtis,

So anyway, in light of the above and my experience, if somebody is buying the stones as WEPS has them mounted, the 800/1000 would be the first purchase that I would make if I was starting over. A 1K/2K would be a great option if someone will build them for you.

Phil

Phil, I’ve been following this thread and have a fewquestion for you: Where do the Micro fine ceramics come into play or rank with Chosera progression? Ineresting thread you posted, the only ceramics listed were the 1200/1600.

My current progression is 800/1000 diamonds, Micro fine ceramics, 2000 and 2500 grit paper taped onto ceramics, then strops. Produces good pollish, but still see very fine scratches without a loupe.

If I wanted to eliminate the sand paper, where would the choseras most effectively fit in here?

Before or after ceramics?

Have people purchased a custom mix of Chosera grits already?

Thanks for any info,
Sauce

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