A few observations/questions from this weeks use
- This topic has 18 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 01/25/2018 at 9:18 pm by
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Hello Josh, I’ll try to help with some of your concerns,
I noticed that when I create a burr it takes me say 10 passes on the right side and then only 2 or 3 on the left for some reason. I would imagine it would take about the same amount of strokes but maybe not?
I will usually work both sides. 5 scrubbing passes on each, back and forth, the same on the left and the right, checking for a burr each time. I don’t work on just one side until I get a burr. This keeps the bevels even on both sides as well as the same level of refinement and should keep the apex in the center of the blade that most but not all knives are designed for. You can draw a burr on both sides of your knife blade and not be at the true apex if the bevels are not consistent and flat from the shoulder of the bevel to the apex. This could be why you are experiencing no improvement as you progress.
all of Clay’s video show him using the quick up and away strokes for the most part.
I’ve followed Clay’s experiences longer than I’ve owned a WE sharpener and he does use edge trailing strokes for safety. He does use edge leading stokes quite often on the last stone in his progression as he feels this gives him a slightly better edge. I have seen him use edge leading strokes throughout when using a set of Chosera’s. Clay has spent a lot of time with research and experimentation so he more than most does a lot of different methods, mediums and techniques.
The main reason for edge trailing strokes is safety. Most people feel the edge leading stroke produces a better, truer edge but can be more dangerous and mistakes or bad technique become evident very quickly, usually in blood. Scrubbing makes metal removal quicker, period and most folks use scrubbing to set the bevel to develop an apex.
The sharpness as you progress not being where you want…Do you check sharpness after every stone? With my stones there is a .25 to .3 deg. difference between my 600 and 800 stone. This caused me to spend way to much time, when I first started, to basically re-profile the bevel with an 800 stone and after I finished and was satisfied it took me way longer to get the 1000 stone to get results because I had to re-profile it again with 1000 grit. Check your stones with an angle cube. Set up a knife with the 100’s for an 20 deg. edge then put the 200’s on and write the result down and continue this all the way thru the stones. Also flip the paddle over at the start, does the 100 read 20 deg. on both sides in both directions? I check the angle with the cube whenever I switch stones and then check visually to make sure the next stone is hitting flat at the same angle as the previous stone before I cause any undue re-profiling or having to back up to redo something. Remember your stones are not yet fully broken in yet but they should be starting to settle in soon.
The 100 diamonds will sharpen anything that I’ve brought them up against to this point. The harder the steel the more time it will take and if you try to get overly aggressive with very hard steel you can cause some underlying damage at the apex that you will not see until you get to the higher grits and that sucks! Some of the hardest metals don’t like to be over refined for this and other reasons as well.
The 50/80 grit stone definitely have there place but are VERY aggressive. When I used them the first time I was blown away with the metal they are capable of “hogging off”. When they’re new they dig deep into the metal so I don’t draw a burr with those stones. Even after they break in they are for heavy metal removal. I use them to set the blade up for the 100’s when re-profiling, just on knives that are going to take a ton of time with the 100’s alone. Out of the 300+ knives on my stones I probably only used the 50/80 stones on 30 or 40 of them at the most. I do use the 80 grit side without using the 50 side at times as well.
I hope some of this can help you get closer to where you want to go.
John-L, there’s been a good number of new users on the Forum as of late, with the release of the “WE Go”. Some of these exact questions and issues have recently been asked because new users often share these same experiences. Not intending to put it off on you John, I invite you to read Forum posts particularly those posts started by new Forum sign ups, (look at their Register date). You’ll find answers to almost all these questions you posted here. They were covered and explained very well and thoroughly. It would be hard to do it that well, again, without overlooking something.
Right now I’m tied up with something. I didn’t want to leave you with out a response. When I can I’ll scan the forum and try to link you to those posts. In the mean time try and go back the last month or two, maybe, and just read all the posts/threads from the top to the end. As you read them skip over a subject that has no bearing on your situation. I promise you it’ll be will be worth your while and you gain a lot of knowledge from others experiences.
Also, you’ll find some subjects worth marking “favorites” that you know will come in handy to you at a later time.
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)@Josh-L these are all great questions/observations.
- Is it normal to work a lot harder on one side to create a burr than the other?
- It is normal because you’ve already reached the apex on the first side. In order to keep the bevels even, you should go ahead and do the same amount of work on each side. What I prefer to do instead when profiling a knife is to color both bevels in w/ marker and use alternating strokes until all the marker is gone from both sides. Then I’ll do 10 strokes on one side and check for a burr. If I don’t get one, I’ll do 10 strokes on the other side and check for a burr. If you don’t get one on the second side, switch to the first and do 10 strokes and check again. Repeat that until you’ve gotten a burr from both sides.
- Is the scrubbing method ok or preferred to the up/away method or is there a place/time for both?
- The scrubbing method is fine, but it’s a little more advanced. I always show the upward motion on videos because it’s the safest technique and I also don’t want new users to accidentally spend too much time in one area and create low spot.
- Why does it feel less sharp as I go up in grits? The polished edges look sexy but if they are less sharp then I won’t use them on my hunting knives. But if there’s a benefit to it then I’ll do it.
- The coarse edges feel sharp because they are very toothy, almost like a saw. They will cut very aggressively though it won’t be a very clean cut. A lot of people like a toothy edge for specific things like cutting rope.
- I also had a small fixed blade that’s like a mini cleaver (pic attached) I sometimes carry in my pocket. I think it’s made of tool steel. I worked on that thing for like 10 minutes with the 100 stone and could never get a burr. Is there a trick to sharpening super hard steel like that or do I just need to get the 50/80 stones?
- You can try going w/ a higher angle, or just spend more time w/ your stones. A good technique for removing a lot of metal is to alternate your stroke directions so you create a cross-hatch pattern.
-Clay
You’ve received some great answers to your questions. Regarding the knife not feeling as sharp as you progress through the girts: Like Clay said, a toothy edge does feel very sharp to your fingers because there are microscopic serrations all along the apex. This can be exactly what you want if you are cutting fibrous substances like rope and zip ties. As you go to a more refined edge, the serrations become proportionally smaller and the edge may feel like it has lost sharpness, but the sharpness has actually increased significantly. A polished edge can cut your finger without you even noticing when it started to cut because it is so effortless and smooth once the skin has been broken (safety note: Don’t run your fingers along a polished edge!). Highly refined edges will cut delicate items like onions, bell peppers, flimsy phone book paper, and hair with much less effort and with cleaner looking cuts than a toothy edge will give.
Bottom line: Both types of edges have their place and with your new WE-120 you can get either depending on your needs for that particular cutting tool.
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You guys are awesome. Thanks for the replies they will help a ton I’m sure. And I will go back and read old posts as well.
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…Do you check sharpness after every stone? With my stones there is a .25 to .3 deg. difference between my 600 and 800 stone.
There should not be a difference of more than 0.1 degree between one stone and the next. If you have to make an adjustment for it, the platen is probably not mounted correctly on the handle pocket. I’ve had this happen twice with stones I’ve bought over the last 6-plus years. The platen is a very tight fit in the pocket and once once in a while the stone sits high on one end; not fully seated in the pocket.
Here’s a photo of one of those stones, showing how I could fit a scalpel between the handle and the high end of the stone.
To solve the problem, I just cut off the end of the plastic with a hacksaw blade, so the stone could drop into its more correct position..
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I recently re-mounted my set of diamond stones onto a new set of blank handles. I wanted to get the tighter rod/handle fit and I wanted to re-pair (as opposed to repair) the stones differently, to reduce the number of handles. I now have pairs of 200/400, 600,800 and 1000/1500, plus a couple of pairs with brass platens for diamond film. I say all of this to make a point. Even with all the re-mounting and handle changes, all of the stones fall into a 0.1 degree window. I don’t need to make any angle adjustments once the angle has been set with my angle-cube.
I want to point out that with stones that are 5.5 inches long, a difference of 0.010 inches in the distance between one end of a stone and the other will produce about a 0.1 degree error. This error will result in a slightly convex bevel. Probably not enough to see, but there nonetheless. A mis-positioned stone sitting high on one end of the handle will result in an angle change of about 0.4 degrees. This assumes a set-angle of about 20 dps.
Tom, did you use the 3M VHB tape to secure the re-paired stones?
Marc
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Tom, did you use the 3M VHB tape to secure the re-paired stones?
Yes, I did. I ordered it from Amazon at : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Y7DULS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For each platen, I used three patches of tape, each about one inch long.
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Josh-L, lubricate your ball joints well, move them around a lot to loosen them up, clean them well, re-lubricate. Move the ball joints in all directions to the far margins of their motion to loosen them up. When tightening, do the gross angle adjustment first. When no other adjustment is needed and there is to be no more movement on the ball joint screw, then snug up the knurled thumb nut snuggly, last. If needed place a thin ribbon of plumbers Teflon tape in the “L” Bracket adjustment screw hole. Screw the ball joint in to the Teflon lined hole. This will help tighten it up.
Sorry I have no experience clamping that style knife, I would attempt to clamp on the center spine.
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its) - Is it normal to work a lot harder on one side to create a burr than the other?
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