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1/2 inch difference in micro adjuster threads?

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  • #47106
    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 47
    • Replies: 339

    Model: 2016 Gen 3 Pro with an upgraded WE 3001 vice.

    I thought I asked this same question before (search did not turn up my question) or maybe I read it in another thread. . .

    Seeing a 1/2 inch or greater difference between the micro adjuster threads each time I use it that 1/2 inch of extra threads still bothers me.  I know its using the angle cube to set the angles on each side is the only thing that matters.  But it still bothers me especially when I use the Tormec adapter as it is locked into place ( the LAA or the WE 3001 jaws alone is locked into a fixed position) With the Tormek the blade handle can slightly rotated to compensate for an off bevel on either side.  If the flatness of the side of the blade allows, I use the angle cube to set the blade at “0” degrees in the adabpter.

    I’ve found using the blade and locking bar technique on a table with adapter lock bar and blade both flat and then tighten the adapter’s knob down on the handle . . . this still can cause the blade to not start off in a perfect verticle position before I start my angle adjustments.

    So Im always tempted to rotate the knife to one side to compensate for the extra 1/2 inch of the threads on the right side (it must be an OCD thing).

    From when I altered the system removing the shelves (maybe the right side slipped over a hole under the base? ) I don’t use or need the shelves as it put the unit too high when the shelves were installed.  It appears the system has been built with adjustment over-rides.  So I’m pondering taking it apart again, so I can get at the underside of the base and see if I can get the right side to move 1/2 an indent hole or a degree into the next hole being the level moves both sides at once.  If this was possible it would solve my aesthetic issue whenever I mount a knife.  My guess is the right side has somehow jumped a hole or came that way, if that is possibe.  I also see two adjustment screws on the base looking down at the unit from above.  I don’t know if they can be adjusted to compensate for the 1/2 inch of extra threads only on the right side.  My left and right bevels come out pretty close but thats because of using the angle cube.  I also noticed when I remounted the unit to the base without the shelves and I had to pick up some flat head special bolts and to get the unit to fit right I had to hacksaw one of the flatheads to allow it to fit.  This tells me the whole unit is off by a half of a degree.

    What say you regarding any enhanced adjustability of the Pro 3 unit?

     

    #47107
    Alan
    Participant
    • Topics: 15
    • Replies: 206

    Expidia –

    Pretty sure I understand your question.  A half inch difference between the micro adjustment nuts for any give angle setting on the plate seems like a lot to me.

    I remember when I removed the blue plate (to install the WE 3001 vice) on my unit, the movement of the arms were controlled by their connection to the angle adjustment lever.  This is where I would suggest you first look.

    When I reassembled mine (once the new vice was installed), I moved the angle lever all the way to the right (maximum high angle, arms fully outward left and right) as far as it would go. Then I eyeballed the left arm to make sure it was the same distance outward. Once I bolted on the blue plate, I mounted a knife, and measured the side-to side angle difference with the angle cube, having both micro adjust nuts tightened all the way to the arms.  I noticed there was only a slight difference in angle.

    I suggest taking it apart again, and seeing if you can make any adjustments.

    Let us know how it works.  If need be, I’ll take mine apart again to try and help.

    A half inch difference between the micro adjustments, just to get a symmetrical angle on the blade would bother me, too!

     

    Alan

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Alan.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Alan. Reason: many edits to try to make it more readable
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    #47110
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 65
    • Replies: 2583

    Hey Expidia, first thing I’d do is verify my vice is mounted straight and “square” and “centered” on the base, front and back, left and right, with no rotation.  If is off any I’d correct this first and recheck your issue.

    The angle adjustment is a separate function below the vice’s base plate where it is mounted and secured.  The single central adjustment lever moves the “L” brackets, simultaneously, inward, (narrow bevel angles) and outward, (wider bevel angles) as it is rotated through it’s range, from far left stop position to the far right, stop position.  I believe there is some slight lag or slop in translating this lever rotational motion into the in – out sliding motion that changes the “L” bracket position and thus the angle settings.

    With a thin flat bar of stiff metal, I use an engineer’s ruler, clamped centered and vertical in your jaws, and with the micro-adjustment screws backed all-the-way “in” so no threads are exposed, and the lever set all-the-way to the far left, then compare the rod guide angle readings done with the digital cube. I’d compare exposed thread length left “L” bracket VS right “L” bracket for each click position as I moved through each half degree then full degree increment as the lever is rotated click by click from left lock position to full right lock position.  While comparing the exposed screw length.  I believe you’ll see that the amount of exposed screw does vary, right screw to left screw, as your angle changes as you move through the angle adjustment range.

    I have dismantled and cleaned my multiple times.  I have not determined that there are any “adjustment stops”.  There are black knobs on the surface of the base that tighten up the motion of the slide bars that connect to the “L” brackets under the base plate, moving them closer and further apart as the angle adjustment lever is rotated through it’s range.  These black knobs limit the “L” bracket side to side movement and tighten or stabilize their position.

    I believe the method to correct for this varying positional error we correlate and observe as uneven exposed screw threads, is to screw in and screw out the micro-adjustment screws and everything is working exactly as mechanically designed and engineered.  It’s just the visual aesthetics of uneven thread exposed from right to left side that doesn’t sit right with our OCD brains.

    Because we usually work within a relatively minimum angle range when sharpening the knife types and styles we prefer to own, use and sharpen, we don’t see a lot of different angle lever positions.  I believe we’d see different amounts of thread exposed, side to side, if one knife was profiled to 13 dps and the next one was set to maybe 23 dps and the next to 18 dps…some greater angle variety then we normally use.

    I submit to you if your vice is mounted square and the “L” brackets are moving simultaneously as the lever moves through it’s rotational range, and you’re able to adjust the stone handles to a fine degree of rod angle positioning, using the micro-fine-adjustment screws, then everything is working exactly as it’s supposed to.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #47112
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 65
    • Replies: 2583

    Last, I’d like to add to clarify, the placement and secureness of the vice on the blue base and how this blue base is oriented, aligned and attached to the black base portion of the Gen 3 Pro only relates to the knive’s orientation, (forward, backward, side to side and rotated off line), relative to the rod angle arms.  That is whether the knife will be oriented straight and parallel when clamped in relation to the forward and after arc motion of the rod arms on the ball joints.  The angle adjustments are a totally separate function controlled under the black base and it’s independent of the vice’s position.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #47113
    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 47
    • Replies: 339

    OK Marc, I’ll run through what you described to check.  Thanks for that in depth explanation of how its designed.  Does it matter if upper or lower jaw holes?  My engineering ruler is like a standard sized ruler so I figure the lower holes.

    On another note: I sent out two more LAA today.  One member in TX and another in AZ.  Last week with the one I sent to Denmark I took that one out of my own LAA and sent it out as I couldn’t locate the small plastic package with the extra allen screws.  I figured I’d just go back to the Fastenal store and pick up another 10 pack for $3 like I did last month.  Well, this time when she went to ring it up she said they were now 10 for $6.  What ticks me off is that’s a 100% increase in a month.  I’d bet what this company and I’m sure other will follow suit is to use Trumps import tariff’s as an excuse to screw the consumer (in this case “allen screw” the consumer) and enrich their own revenues on the same old stock on hand.  Their costs did not go up 100% in a month!  But the clerk was nice enough to adjust the price down to 10 for $4 because I still had the old receipt in my hand to make sure I was getting the correct screws.

    #47114
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 65
    • Replies: 2583

    Just matters that it’s level and that your point of reference is the same point used again and again to lay the rod arms to this same point for consistency in the readings.  The exercise is to see how the screw adjustments are used to get your readings on the whole and 1/2 degree angle readings as measured with the digital cube.  I believe you’ll see as the lever position goes from far left, (low angles) to all the way right (higher angles) the screw positions will vary, in or out, right side or left side, as is needed to achieve the whole and half degree increments and that the amount of screw exposed will change from one side “L” bracket to other side “L” bracket to get the adjustment made.  I think you’ll see it changes and doesn’t stay a constant like you’re seeing now with your repeated, pretty similar angle sharpening on pretty similar shaped and styled knives, like your CRKs.

    That’s generous of you to re-up the set screw supply.  If you need a benefactor, I’m sure we can dig one up.  Now we know his name.  Maybe you can open a side business of shipping a set screw and the matching allen wrench in a small envelope; domestic and international sales!

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #47247
    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 47
    • Replies: 339

    Kudos to Marc for our back and forth emails Sunday.  I took the vice apart and I think what was causing the slight canting to one side of blade in the jaws which was the cause of the consistent difference of having 1/2 inch more threads showing on the right micro adjuster than on the left micro adjuster.  I had to correct for this using the angle cube to get even bevels on each side of the blade.

    I found the 4 screws under the vice were never tightened after I upgraded to the WE 3001 vice.  Thinking back when I received it a few months ago I think the vice came as all one piece or unit that I just had to use two hex head screws going through the blue base and into the vice.

    I can’t remember how they shipped the vice because the vice that I was replacing (and that I sold to an office mate) definitely came in two pieces since it  was a WE 300 vice which needed a separate riser base block to work with his older system along with extended rods (for the new added height) and a wider degree bar.

    I never checked the snugness of the 4 screws under the new WE 3001 vice itself which I didn’t see as they are are set deep into 4 holes (one was almost all the way out, but not far enough to hit the base and tilt the block).  The micro adjustment threads are pretty equal now at the start and end of my angle adjustments using the cube.

    Thanks again Marc for your email time!

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