Newb DLF question

Hello Aaron, welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum and community.  What you say is correct.  It is counterintuitive.  Yes, it’s common practice to step back a grit or so when switching abrasive mediums in your sharpening progression.  Each medium substrate is different with different scratch pattern characteristics.  So your understanding is correct, that both the diamond stones, 1500 grit, and the 6µ DLF are hard diamond abrasive particles of a similar particle size, but being that they are different mediums these similar size particles are mounted or imbedded into the base substrates differently.  Their spacing and their density differ leading to different scratch pattern characteristics, (i.e., scratch width and depth).

To gain the best attributes of both mediums is to make use of the grit overlap.  Truly though, the only way you’ll know for sure is to use both grits and visually observe the results.  Of course, this will require a lighted magnified aid like a USB microscope.   You may be satisfied with your results going from 1500 grit diamond stones to 3µ DLF.  With a little more time, effort and more stroke counts, it will probably yield similar results.  Although, going right to the 3µ, instead of 6µ, may put more wear on the 3µ DLF wearing it out sooner then if you used the 6µ first.  Try it, it won’t hurt anything.

The bottom line is we’re striving for the best results and visual progress the easiest and fastest way about it, with the least amount of effort.

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Brewbear, wickededge, Dan, David, William, DaveG

The micro fine 1.4 / 0.6 micron ceramics are the exact formulation as the standard stones that come with a sharp maker. Clay sources these from the same manufacturer as Spyderco uses.

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Brewbear, wickededge, David, Marc H

Both Organic and Marc are correct in the statements that jumping from 1,500 to 3 micron would require much more work with the 3 micron film to erase the scratches made by the 1500 grit stone.  Since the usable life of the film is limited to some number of sharpenings (perhaps 30?) you’d probably only get a very few out of the 3 micron DLF before needing to replace it.  Too expensive and too time consuming.

Trying to compare particle size with grit assignments is always confusing, as there are several different equivalent charts out there.  I use one from AdvancedAbrasives.com, where they show 6 micron as the equivalent of 3,000 grit.  They have 3 micron at 8,000 grit.  These numbers jive very well with what I’m seeing in the scratch patterns.

AdvancedAbrasives.com lists 1000 fgrit as being made up of about 18 micron particles.  They list 1500 grit as being made up of about 13 micron particles.

Diamond abrasives as produced are not perfectly of a given grit, but rather a range of particle sizes which are taken as an average.  AdvancedAbrasives.com list 6 micron as comprised of particle sizes from 4 to 8 micron.  3 micron abrasives would range from 2 to 4 micron particles.  Within a given batch, there may be more particles weighted toward the larger or smaller limits of that range, so this also accounts for some variability.

If you extrapolate grit size by calculating the theoretical number of particles per inch, the 6 micron abrasive could fall within the range from 3175 to 6350 grit.  The 3 micron could fall into the range from 6350 to 12700 grit.  The equivalents that AdvancedAbrasives.com calls out fall within those ranges.

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Mr. Toad, wickededge, Dan, David, Marc H, Organic

Aaron, I’m sorry to hear your frustration.  Let’s step back and start at the beginning.  Maybe we can help you to use a technique that’ll give you better outcomes.  I say “a technique” because how I sharpen and how “Organic” or “tcmeyers” uses their WEPS may differ from how I use mine and all three of us achieve very sharp knife edges.  We are all looking for the same sharp edge, how we get there may be different.

The single most important aspect is that your scratch patterns applied to each side bevels are continuous across the bevel and up off the knife edge.  Where the two side bevels, ( i.e., the left and right side bevels), meet is the apex or the very edge of the knife edge.  If this line of steel from the heel to the tip of the knife edge is not precise where they converge, the knife will not be sharp.

It can feel like you are forming a burr, the supposed, indication that you have apexed the edge, but if you don’t remove this rolled or folded over pile of steel your edge it won’t be sharp.  I suggest you add two more steps to your sharpening technique.  When you feel the burr on the first side, switch your sharpening attention to the opposite side till you now feel the burr has flopped to that side.   Then use only “edge leading” direction stone strokes, (i.e., down and onto the knife edge), alternatingly.  Left side – right side – left side – right side moving your diamond sharpening stones down and onto the knife edge.  This will knock down and off the steel forming the burr to expose the sharp knife edge.  I do this alternating “edge leading” stroke for each and every stone I use in my sharpening progression once I have drawn a burr at the end of my sharpening step before I move on to the next grit in my sharpening progression.

I’ll add, I think it helps and is import to check to verify your bevel angle settings are staying the same and consistent as you move from one grit to the next.  If there is any difference, as little as it may appear, I adjust or fine tune the guide rod angle setting to the precise angle setting I’ve chosen to sharpen this knife to.

I have found that it may appear while using the sharpie that the edge is appexed but still a tiny sliver of steel is left piled up on the apex preventing it from cutting as well as it should.  I use a USB microscope to visually inspect that my scratch pattern is apexing the edge.  Then the last thing I do before changing to the next grit or moving on to my next step, whatever it is, is to do the alternating edge leading strokes.  You should easily be able to feel the difference in the edge sharpness before then after this finishing step.

Important: Exercise extreme care with edge leading strokes because your fingers are easily exposed to t he knife edge!

PS: the stroke employed with your Sharpmaker is an “edge leading” stroke.

• This reply was modified 6 years ago by Marc H.

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Mr. Toad, wickededge, Organic

Alternating, edge leading stroke are always my last or finishing strokes with each and every “sharpening” stone.  If I then progress to lapping films or strops these require the edge trailing, ” up and off” direction strokes to prevent cutting or gouging the medium.

The very last thing I do is use strops in an edge trailing, up and off stroke, for every knife I sharpen.

• This reply was modified 6 years ago by Marc H.

Aaron this video , also produced by Clay, fits right in after the previous one to show you how and where the “edge leading” stroke fits in.

Between the two videos you should be in business.

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wickededge, Organic