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Newb DLF question

This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  tcmeyer 10/08/2018 at 2:13 am.

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  • #47826

    Aaron
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 1

    So I’m a newb, I’ve had my WE130 for about 2 weeks now with diamond stones 100-1000. I’ve finally got my technique down and am getting some decent results but want to take it another step. So I am looking at the 1500 diamonds and either 3 or 6 micron DLF. My question is which should I go with, the 3 or the 6 micron? From reading here the 6 seems most often recommended after the 1500s but it seems counterintuitive to me. It seems to me that diamond stones and DLF are both hard diamond substrates so it’s pretty apples to apples, not like going from diamonds to strops so stepping back doesn’t make sense. If the 1000 diamonds are 7 micron as WE says, I would expect the 1500s to be in the 3-5 micron range so the next logical progression would be 3 micron DLF. So why does everyone go to 6 micron after the 1500s? Am I missing something ? Thanks!

    #47827

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 52
    • Replies: 1334

    Hello Aaron, welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum and community.  What you say is correct.  It is counterintuitive.  Yes, it’s common practice to step back a grit or so when switching abrasive mediums in your sharpening progression.  Each medium substrate is different with different scratch pattern characteristics.  So your understanding is correct, that both the diamond stones, 1500 grit, and the 6µ DLF are hard diamond abrasive particles of a similar particle size, but being that they are different mediums these similar size particles are mounted or imbedded into the base substrates differently.  Their spacing and their density differ leading to different scratch pattern characteristics, (i.e., scratch width and depth).

    To gain the best attributes of both mediums is to make use of the grit overlap.  Truly though, the only way you’ll know for sure is to use both grits and visually observe the results.  Of course, this will require a lighted magnified aid like a USB microscope.   You may be satisfied with your results going from 1500 grit diamond stones to 3µ DLF.  With a little more time, effort and more stroke counts, it will probably yield similar results.  Although, going right to the 3µ, instead of 6µ, may put more wear on the 3µ DLF wearing it out sooner then if you used the 6µ first.  Try it, it won’t hurt anything.

    The bottom line is we’re striving for the best results and visual progress the easiest and fastest way about it, with the least amount of effort.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #47828

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 624

    Hi Aaron, welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum!

    If you want, you can use the 3 micron film after the 1500 grit stone, but it will take more strokes to erase the 1500 grit scratches than the 6 micron will take. Clay posted some very informative microscope images in this thread that show how various diamond lapping films do after the 1500.

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    #47829

    Aaron
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 1

    Thanks guys, I guess I never considered the pattern density of the media on the substrate because in my mind that wouldn’t really have an impact on the scratch pattern assuming equal size/hardness of the media, but more the time/effort required to erode the previous scratch pattern. Looking at the thread Organic posted shows that clearly I am wrong in that thought process as the 6 micron obviously is more refined from the 1500 Grit. That thread brings about a new question of whether the 1500 is necessary or whether I would be better served going with the Glass Platens with 6 micron and 3 microns after the 1000 grit. Ultimately I would like to do crazy sharp beautiful mirror bevels. However, as of right now I’m less concerned about appearance and after strictly a keen edge. I am upgrading from a sharpmaker and would like to find a progression that will emulate Spyderco white fine rods for edc, the 1000 stones aren’t quite there.

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    #47830

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 52
    • Replies: 1334

    Aaron you will be able to attain your objectives.  First you need to gain the experience, technique and consistency to do it.  It’s more about what you do then how you do it.  At this early stage in your sharpening experience,  technique is number one.  With out proper consistent technique it doesn’t matter what mediums you use or the order.  Keep doing as your doing.  Time and practice and continued use of your stones will produce improved results beyond what you’re producing now, as your abrasives continue to break-in and improve.  Then, as you add more and different grit mediums to your progression you’ll reach and achieve better and finer results.  Give time, time, and it’ll come together.  I’m at it for about 6 years now and I think my results still continue to improve.  Each time I sharpen I apply the experiences I learned from previous attempts.  It becomes more clear and second nature.   It’s not something you just decide to do and you can make it happen.  It takes time and experience before it comes together.  Patience.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #47831

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 624

    The micro fine 1.4 / 0.6 micron ceramics are the exact formulation as the standard stones that come with a sharp maker. Clay sources these from the same manufacturer as Spyderco uses.

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    #47832

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 52
    • Replies: 1334

    The Micro Fine 1.4 / 0.6 micron Ceramic Set are the exact same formulation as the standard stones that come with a “Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker”.  Clay, the owner of Wicked Edge, sources these from the same manufacturer that Spyderco uses.

    Just to save you any disappointment these Wicked Edge Micro Fine Ceramic Stones will require a longer break-in period then the Wicked Edge Diamond Stone paddles.  The Ceramics are a good choice, and another alternative, to use following the 1500 grit diamond stones to enhance your edge sharpness and polish.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #47833

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 31
    • Replies: 1621

    Both Organic and Marc are correct in the statements that jumping from 1,500 to 3 micron would require much more work with the 3 micron film to erase the scratches made by the 1500 grit stone.  Since the usable life of the film is limited to some number of sharpenings (perhaps 30?) you’d probably only get a very few out of the 3 micron DLF before needing to replace it.  Too expensive and too time consuming.

    Trying to compare particle size with grit assignments is always confusing, as there are several different equivalent charts out there.  I use one from AdvancedAbrasives.com, where they show 6 micron as the equivalent of 3,000 grit.  They have 3 micron at 8,000 grit.  These numbers jive very well with what I’m seeing in the scratch patterns.

    AdvancedAbrasives.com lists 1000 fgrit as being made up of about 18 micron particles.  They list 1500 grit as being made up of about 13 micron particles.

    Diamond abrasives as produced are not perfectly of a given grit, but rather a range of particle sizes which are taken as an average.  AdvancedAbrasives.com list 6 micron as comprised of particle sizes from 4 to 8 micron.  3 micron abrasives would range from 2 to 4 micron particles.  Within a given batch, there may be more particles weighted toward the larger or smaller limits of that range, so this also accounts for some variability.

    If you extrapolate grit size by calculating the theoretical number of particles per inch, the 6 micron abrasive could fall within the range from 3175 to 6350 grit.  The 3 micron could fall into the range from 6350 to 12700 grit.  The equivalents that AdvancedAbrasives.com calls out fall within those ranges.

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