Steak Knife Touch Up Issue
- This topic has 28 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 09/02/2017 at 11:09 pm by
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I’ve been using WEPS Field and Sport Pro for a couple of years now and have grown my set to include Alum Oxide films and emulsions. I am able to put very sharp edges on all my knives which I measure by the ability to do slice cuts through lightly folded bends of single phone book pages (the only use for a phone book for me anymore). I do find that my carbon edges (Shun Blue) come out the sharpest.
The issue I have is with my non-serrated Henckel 4 star steak knives. I have 8 of them and we use them every day while eating. I know that using them on dinner plates damages the edge but I do not care since they are a pleasure to use. I use a ceramic hone (~1000 grit) to ever so gently (3-4 times per alternate side) straighten the edge every few days. Of course this is done free hand. I scrape my thumb nail to know when the edge is straightened. I can tell which side needs straightening during the process by tilting the knife during the thumb scraping motion.
I say all of this because WEPS touch up has become an issue. I use the alignment guide religiously by putting the tip in dead center of the documented square and making sure any slop biases are in the same direction. I use the angle cube, sharpie and 250x USB scope to verify I reach my 20 DPS apex. I have done all 8 knives about a half dozen times. Even though I go thru all these setup steps (doesn’t take too long), I have always gone to the lowest grit needed to quickly raise and verify a full burr (usually 400 grit). I finish them with the 1500 grit (which I love). However, the last time I did the full set of 8, I was time constrained and did not want to spend 10-15 mins per knife. I wanted to spend 5 minutes to touch up each knife (ie. don’t take the time to raise a full burr) since I figured I shouldn’t have to based on my consistent setup to previous sharpening efforts. I did the first knife (800,1000,1500 grit) and it felt nice and sharp in the clamp but when I removed it from the clamp it failed my phone book test. I chalked it up to an anomaly but the next 3 knives had the same issue. My stubbornness took over and I ignored my time constraint. For the next 4 knives (exact same setup) I went down to the 400 grit, raised the burr and went thru (600,800,1000,1500). They all passed my phone book test.
Observations:
- When observing the knife (post sharpie and first pass of the 800 grit), I can somewhat clearly see that I have reached the apex, but after I go through the “touch up” progression (800,1000,1500 & no burr verification) and compare the knives to the (400,600.800,1000,1500 grit & full burr verification) knives, the “touch up” knives lose every time.
- When observing the knife (pre-sharpie) under 250x, I can clearly see the scratch pattern that my 1000 grit ceramic hone put on the blade. The 1000 grit scratch pattern is only on the top 20% of the bevel. Obviously, I am not holding the 20 DPS angle on the ceramic hone and am removing metal which then messes up my WEPS touch up process.
Questions:
- Should I stop using my ceramic hone ? Maybe go to smooth steel hone ? I got rid of my grooved steel hone cause I see it rip up the edge under 250x.
- Does anyone have a quick touch up method/hone which will preserve my bevel so when I pull out my WEPS for touchup I do not have to raise a full burr ?
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What does the edge look like if you sharpen the knife from scratch and then run it over the honing rod before you actually use the knife?
What angle are you applying? A micro-bevel might be the answer.
Stropping is frequently enough to hone the knife if the edge isn’t severely rolled.
Does your Field and Sport have the cam operated vise? If so, I’d favor just using it once a week to pop the knives, lightly touch the micro-bevel with few strokes per side at your finishing grit and call it done without ever using a honing rod.
-Clay
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I find placement in the vise is super critical (via alignment guide) if you want a razor edge on the full curve at the tip. How can you thin the shoulders on WEPS ?
For placement, are there any marks, like lasered logo, on the blade that you can align w/ the front or back of the clamp? If so, that might be quicker.
To thin the shoulders, just sharpen the knife at 17 dps until you reach the apex. Then use your finishing stone to make a few, very light passes at 20 dps to set the micro-bevel.
-Clay
OK, I did a 17,20 DPS (17 DPS bevel and 20 DPS microbevel full reprofile with burr verification) trial on a single steak knife and learned some more. I thank you for your advice. I took sets of pics (left and right side as mounted in WEPS). The first is the before condition (20 DPS with no microbevel).
What I see is that my free hand honing is not reaching the apex at all on one side which bummed me out. I do honing while holding the ceramic rod horizontal (nonstandard) because it is quick and comfortable (obviously my visual angle is much less accurate than I thought). I/we could really use that wedge. I accepted that condition and moved to a 17,20 reprofile.
My 17 DPS progression was the full suite (100,200,400,600,800,1000,1500,9um,5,3 AlOx Film,2um strop emulsion,1). My test bed was bent phone book paper and glossy magazine paper. The results shown below were comforting to say the least. I took the 17 DPS to the full suite (even though I knew I would be adding a 20 DPS microbevel as I was curious of the sharpness. I removed the knife from WEPS and the 17 DPS was super sharp passing the test bed with flying colors. I then remounted the knife using the alignment guide (no sharpie) and set the angles using the angle cube (0.5 deg adjustments needed) to 20 DPS. I used only the 1000 grit with 20 passes per side to set the microbevel (pic below). I removed the knife and it the failed test bed miserably.
I then remounted the knife again using the alignment guide (no sharpie) and took the knife thru the rest of the full suite being very careful and light with the strops to avoid the infamous edge roll. The pics below show the final product. I then unmounted the knife and it performed excellent in the test bed. As far as I can tell the 17,20 DPS cut almost as well as when it was at 17 DPS above.
I look to see how it holds up over time against a dinner plate. I will be using my USB scope to monitor my free hand honing until someone comes up with a wedge.
BTW, are you going to the NYC Knife Show on Nov 10,11. The current exhibitors include lots of custom makes but no sharpeners from what I can tell. I am going (my first show) with my WEPS in the car and my USB scope with my phone ready to challenge sharpness, looking for a 8” Kramer style chef knife in S110V. I will be your advocate if you are not there (Jende and Cutlerymania are near me in Jersey).
TY, Tom (Readheads)
The microbevel works fine. The interesting thing is after setting the microbevel with the 1000 grit (20 gentle strokes per side) and unmounting the knife, it miserably failed the test bed. Remounting the knife and continuing the full suite on the microbevel (20 gentle strokes per side) resulted in admirably passing the test bed.
I did only 1 knife of the 8. I will do another at 17,20 as Clay described above.
Question: Is there a best practice for measuring sharpness while the knife remains mounted ? It will save time and increase repeatability. It would have to be something which gets cut (in lieu of the 3 finger, etc). I was thinking of a paper straw or phonebook paper roll of a consistent diameter “whacked” into the blade at a 45 deg angle to see if the edge with cut into and slice it.
I guess I could also do an upside down thumb nail scrape.
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I hold a small square of news paper roughly 4″X4″ by the opposite bottom corners and gently pull it down on the clamped knife edge. I use the amount of pressure I need to apply, the ease it cuts and the smoothness I feel as it cuts, as my gauge for sharpness. After doing this maybe a couple hundred times I can now judge whether my edge is sharp and how sharp it is. When I do this little test throughout the sharpening process I see the progress I’m making. It’s nothing scientific or truly qualitative but done enough times I’ve learned to correlate the feel with the knives’ sharpness.
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)3 users thanked author for this post.
I also use the blade to cut thin magazine paper while the knife is clamped. You simply manipulate the paper rather than the blade.
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