Lasting Scratches
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What method or technique do you employ to remove the all the previous scratches so that lasting aberrant scratch doesn’t stay to bight you when you get to the polishing stage after your edge is sharp how you want it? There’s nothing worst than having a mirror polish disrupted by that one or two stray scratches that didn’t go the way of the rest of them.
Marc
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Hey MarcH,
Personally I just look close at my edge with a 10x loop and make sure that the scratch pattern is uniform. Admittedly, almost every time, I will notice one or two after I finish with a stone and will back up to the previous stone and then back and check again. I don’t do a lot of “mirror” edges because of the time involved to get it right. I haven’t found a quick way to achieve a mirror finish, it just takes time, and for me to pay close attention to consistency of the strokes and even pressure all the way thru, and a lot of checking on every stone.
I’ve had the best luck when using the diamond stones thru 1000, then 1200/1600, 1.4/.6 ceramics and then kangaroo strop with 1/.5 diamond emulsion. If I do it right, I can set the edge to news print and the image on the edge is crystal clear without noticeable scratches. It just takes a lot of time.
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Hey MarcH, if I really want to know that I use a 60x loupe (actually a microscope). I could use my 200x microscope or even my 500x one, but that takes a lot of time. For the purpose you describe 60x is enough. (And maybe even lower.)
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
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I follow my progress, continuously, with the 200X scope but still miss those stray scratches till I’m too far past them.
I think you would benefit from a lower degree of magnification. Today I was setting up a new USB ‘scope I’d bought; A Carson zpix 940. So far I’m not impressed at all. The software doesn’t seem to have a full-screen mode and the focal plane face is too wide to make good use of. I’ll be doing some modifying to make it work for me. Not of much informational value to you, but I was reminded of how tedious it was to inspect the full length of the edge at magnifications over about 80X. My Celestron 5MP runs at about 50X and 160X on my 21″ monitor when focused on the face plane. At the lower mag. (50X) it takes only seconds to inspect the entire length for deep scratches – so much more expedient that I automatically reach for it at least once for every grit. At higher powers, inspection is a pain and skipping the inspection keeps you from catching those scratches in time to fix them.
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I’ve stopped using microscope except for inspection. I don’t have any issues looking up close so right now light is my best tool. A flood light that I can move around. I’ve also been more particular about what light I have. That also includes sharpening only in daylight next to a window, even with artificial light. Occasionally I do use a loupe/magnifier but not as much as I used to be.
Now it’s just quicker to go to the upper grit in the polishing stage to uncover what stray deep scratches remains. Then just move back down to lower grit to erase them out. Saves more time than whipping out the microscope actually. But I also realized this method only works with experience.
It’s still a struggle to be honest. Perfect mirror edges are painfully time consuming.
It’s still a struggle to be honest. Perfect mirror edges are painfully time consuming.
I’ve seen photos of your work. Very impressive polished finish. Would you care to share your stone progression to create those results.
Marc
Marc
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Thanks Marc! I do get good mirror edges but it is out of elbow grease at most times. I still take too many hours to get all the scratches out. Then there’s also the struggle of getting the polishes done right while keeping the edge sharpness at HHT-3+. I’ve always wondered how Clay does it so well and so quickly.
Without further ado, here’s my progression:
50 – 80 – 100 – … – 1000 diamond
1.4um – 0.6um micro ceramics
5um – 3.5um – 1.0um – 0.5um diamond on cereal cardboard taped to the micro ceramic paddlesI do have all the leather strops and 1200/1600 ceramics but I tend to skip them altogether now.
For me, the leather polishes very slowly with light touch, and rounding the edge too much with heavier touch. When I drop 2 dps to counter that, I create a fuzzy shoulder which is another problem altogether. So I never had much luck with leather. The cereal cardboard box has been my best stropping medium by far. I use quite a bit of pressure on polishing and this seemed to be my magic bullet.
The 1200/1600 is not working for me at all. The set I have burnishes the edge semi-shiny but I don’t feel like it’s removing previous scratches effectively or even cutting properly. I’ve cleaned them numerous times and they’re always feeling powdery. I’ve skipped them the moment I got the 1.4/0.6um, which has been my favourite finishing stones.
I bought the 1500 but haven’t got chance to do any mirror edges recently. The lapping film is also next on my list.
Guys, your missing out if you haven’t tried the lapping films. They save some time and provide a outstanding finish. Often times, one doesn’t need to start at 50 and can skip directly to 400. Only for the worst of edges would you need to start at 50 even 100 0r 200.
Eddie Kinlen
M1rror Edge Sharpening Service, LLC
+1(682)777-1622Without further ado, here’s my progression: 50 – 80 – 100 – … – 1000 diamond 1.4um – 0.6um micro ceramics 5um – 3.5um – 1.0um – 0.5um diamond on cereal cardboard taped to the micro ceramic paddles I do have all the leather strops and 1200/1600 ceramics but I tend to skip them altogether now. For me, the leather polishes very slowly with light touch, and rounding the edge too much with heavier touch. When I drop 2 dps to counter that, I create a fuzzy shoulder which is another problem altogether. So I never had much luck with leather. The cereal cardboard box has been my best stropping medium by far. I use quite a bit of pressure on polishing and this seemed to be my magic bullet. the 1.4/0.6um, which has been my favorite finishing stones.
Another question for elaboration: Of course with the paper cereal box you must use an edge trailing stroke or it would dig in and cut it, what strokes or how do you vary your strokes with the diamond progression? Thanks again
Marc
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Guys, your missing out if you haven’t tried the lapping films. They save some time and provide a outstanding finishes. Often time, one doesn’t need to start at 50 and can skip directly to 400. Only for the worst of edges would you need to start at 50 even 100 0r 200.
I really gotta try the lapping films soon! Forgot to add that I use the 50/80 because that’s what I use to establish edges on new blades or reprofiling existing edges.
For maintenance, I’ll always use the finest grit possible. I rarely go below 800, or even 1000 for maintenance. I just touched up my recent EDC with the 1500 and that’s really awesome.
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Another question for elaboration: Of course with the paper cereal box you must use an edge trailing stroke or it would dig in and cut it, what strokes or how do you vary your strokes with the diamond progression? Thanks again
Now I just swap between heel-to-tip and tip-to-heel between each diamond grit. I mostly just go by experience now.
I’ll do scrubbing motion in the earlier grits and once I reach about 400/600 I’ll only use edge trailing strokes.
I only use heel-to-tip, edge trailing motion for all the diamond paste grits.
A bit odd I suppose?
I recently have started filing or scrubbing the cutting edge(90 deg. to the blade) on a lot of the knives that I see. Most of the knives that I get are severely worn and with some kind of damaged edge, what’s left of them. Then I will make 5-10 passes,heel to tip, with 50/80 stones if the blade isn’t to thin, and then maybe 20 or so with the 100 stone, heel to tip edge trailing, and then scrub in and raise my burrs with the 200’s. I then go thru whatever progression I’m using always heel to tip, edge trailing. My favorite finishing stone is also the 1.4/.6 ceramic stones. I personally don’t find that motion odd at all. It’s safest for me and I have read quite a bit about sharpening motion and have come to the conclusion that it’s a matter of preference and the motion itself has little to no effect of the sharpening results, except the scratch pattern at the end of the process does make a difference in the way the knife cuts, orientation of the teeth in the blade. I will sometimes use an up/down motion on the final diamond stone or stones if I want a blade that likes to push cut, say chopping instead of slicing.
As far as stropping, if I want a knife to be as sharp as possible I am now hand stropping with a Stropman strop. For strictly sharpness, I can’t come close to hand stropping, but I’m still working on it. One surprise to me with hand stropping is that it doesn’t take much longer than using the strops with my WEPS. and the results are night and day as far as sharpness. The edge when finishing with my micro ceramics and then hand stropping is nicely polished all be it not a true mirrored finish.
I to am going to jump into the lapping films, probably fairly soon. I have listened to a lot of you good folks and with very few negative comments, and a lot of positives, it seems to be the next evolution in my arsenal.
Good stuff guys, Thanks to all of you!
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I’ll do scrubbing motion in the earlier grits and once I reach about 400/600 I’ll only use edge trailing strokes. I only use heel-to-tip, edge trailing motion for all the diamond paste grits. A bit odd I suppose?I only use edge-trailing when using film (or stropping). Clay posted some photos he took that seemed to clearly demonstrate that edge-trailing strokes left a more ragged edge than edge-leading strokes. I’ll use edge-leading with stones below 800-grit unless I know I’m not going to hit the apex. 800 and above seem to be less of a problem, in terms of edge damage.1 user thanked author for this post.
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