Samuel Gabriel
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04/22/2013 at 5:19 pm #11085
Just a little warning note for Daren, that I just noticed with my one.
I finally got around to starting on improving the factory edge on my new Manix2.
I centred the blade in the clamp and locked it down, and used the angle cube to set both of the sides to 15 deg, as I’ve decided I want a really steep back bevel on this one. I may then do a slightly less acute microbevel.
But anyway, I had the angle cube all zeroed out on the base, and set the stones to exactly 15 deg per side, then I thought I’d measure the flats of the FFG sides of the blade, in the clamp.
I measured 0.5 deg on the left and 3.5 deg on the right.
So I would have been setting the bevel all wrong if I’d gone with that.
So as the blade was firmly fixed in the clamp, I decided to go for 16.5 deg per side.
I calculated that meant a setting of 15 degrees on the left, and 18 degrees on the right.
Taking into account the angle of the blade in the clamp, it should be a perfectly even 16.5 deg bevel per side, or 14.5 degrees per side less the (4 deg total) angle of the FFG blade edges…Bit of a trap for new players there.
04/22/2013 at 11:58 am #11075I have the same Endura Sam has and I cut everything from boxes to my lunch. It’s my EDC so it gets a lot of work.
Which Endura? Blade Steel?
What do you usually cut with it?Some things that would be good to know before throwing out advice.
I am not sure, but this might get better response if it was posted under sharpening techniques…
🙂[/quote]
Hey Daren. Here’s what I did: 16 degrees; and progression: 100, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, then 1200 and 1600 ceramics, then 5u and 3.5u leather strops. I am happy with the result, and I use my Endura4 pretty much the same way as you do. EDC, and assorted tasks, cutting fruit, paper, boxes, etc.
04/14/2013 at 6:45 pm #10843This is what I use, and I believe it to be genuine traditional pure neatsfoot oil, not Lard:
It is old fashioned, and I got it from an equestrian store that is the kind of place to only get the real thing. Also, I used to deal with real gelatin, the real unflavoured, unscented stuff that is used in some types of cooking, that smells with that distinctive cattle feet smell, and there is a similar whiff when I open the lid on this oil. It also states that it is natural and “entirely free from chemicals or additives”.
So I’ve rubbed some into the sides of my WEPS strops that have the finer abrasive paste (3.5µ), and I’ll see how that side feels in comparison to the untreated side, after a day or so for it to absorb properly.04/13/2013 at 2:41 pm #10829I would suggest that it’s a bit of both, as well as mechanically pushing down some of the weaker peaks.
04/13/2013 at 2:00 pm #10827Yes, a good discussion is always interesting. I suspect that the differing opinions expressed here may simply come down to us coming from differing ideas about the definition of the term “burnishing”. I know in the metalwork world, it very specifically means the technique of rubbing a harder metal on a softer metal to achieve the polishing effect.
But bear in mind that in the wider world in general, the dictionary definition of the term “burnishing” is broader, being simply:
“1. to polish (a surface) by friction.
2. to make smooth and bright”
-or words to that effect.
So we can all agree, I think, that from that definition of “burnishing” we are accomplishing that (to a greater or lesser extent) with leather strops, yes?04/13/2013 at 1:13 pm #10824When you study the physics of how molecules and atoms work and bind together and move and shift, there are a lot of suprising and amazing things going on.
Like how static electricity and just electricity in general interact with molecules, and how loosely held together some of these molecules are, depending on their structure, and how they interact with each other.
These bonds between molecules are nothing more than electrons shared by atoms.
In some structures, like graphite, the structure is very robust.
In others, molecules can be pushed and moved relatively easily; suprisingly easily in some cases.
When an apple falls off a tree, for example, the molecules in the stem holding the apple lose their electrical bond connections and it falls to the ground. When you touch an object, you are not actually touching atoms or molecules; you are “feeling” the electromagnetic force. This is similar to when you hold two magnets apart with their like-poles facing each other. You feel the magnetic force, which is nothing more than electrons interacting with each other.
When you rub a glass rod with a piece of silk, you are actually rubbing electrons off the glass rod with the silk.
Given some of what I have seen in the world of physics, it does not suprise me at all that the large amount of friction that is created between the surface of the leather and the steel (enough to lift a heavy base off the tabletop) could cause movement at the molecular level on the steel bevel. And when I see the enlarged images, it looks very different to me than the effect I see from mere abrasion.EDIT: For the record, I didn’t mention “smearing” molecules at any point. That is not burnishing, nor what I was referring to. I am referring to “…the plastic deformation of a surface due to sliding contact with another object. Visually, burnishing smears the texture of a rough surface and makes it shinier. Burnishing may occur on any sliding surface if the contact stress locally exceeds the yield strength of the material…”
04/13/2013 at 10:19 am #10816I’m tempted to wreck it by adding more Karma, but it’s too cool looking 🙂
Perhaps you’d like to weigh in, Clay, on the subject of burnishing discussed previously in this thread.
It was my understanding that burnishing may occur on any sliding surface if the contact stress locally exceeds the yield strength of the material. Which in the case of leather on steel is caused by the high friction between the two surfaces.
But Phil contends that it is not possible for leather to move the molecules of steel, or cause a plastic deformation of, or change to, a steel surface due to sliding contact with the leather surface.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnishing_(metal)See this video segment starting from 9m30s:
04/09/2013 at 3:15 pm #10772I must say, I’m at a similar place as you… I just got my Pro pack on Saturday just gone, and I’ve also done about 6 or 7 knives.
However, my results have been quite different when it comes to the stropping.
I found a HUGE difference between finishing with the 1000’s (or with the 1600 ceramics; I got the 1200/1600 ceramics too) and doing the stropping with the 5/3.5’s on leather.
When I finish with the 1000’s or the 1600’s, I see a dull, matte surface on the bevel, that is smooth, but with visible striations. But after a short stint of stropping, with 5 then 3.5 microns, I see a huge improvement in the finish. It looks much smoother and glossier, and the tiny striations are less visible to the naked eye.
How much paste did you use? I can’t think of any other variable that could account for this difference, other than perhaps the pressure applied or speed. I use a fairly light pressure, and a quite fast speed on the stropping stages.04/08/2013 at 5:49 pm #10748I did a little bit of a tidy up on one of the new Kershaws, but I didn’t have time to do a really nice job yet. But what an improvement even so!
04/08/2013 at 4:42 pm #10747It’s just a personal thing, but I’d prefer to finish with leather strops with no diamonds on it, just neatsfoot oil rubbed in, as the barbers used to use to strop their straight razors. The burnishing effect that leather has on a metal bevel is not replicated by any man-made synthetic substance. But I’m not necessarily suggesting that for you, as I haven’t used the nano cloth myself.
04/06/2013 at 11:10 pm #10720I found I do it a bit, because of the technique I use. I use the 100’s to do all of the edge setting and profiling of the blade, then work my way up the rest of the grits just for enhancing the finish of the edge and bevel of course. On a knife I haven’t ever previously set, I grind just one side till I get a burr one the other side. Then I do the other side till I get a burr on the first side. Then I check the depth of the bevel on both sides and adjust as necessary till they are even, then move on to 200’s and start alternating strokes. That way I get a perfect finish and razor sharp every time, and relatively quickly, depending on how bad the blade was to start with. I picked that method up from tips gleaned watching YouTube videos of Clay doing customer’s knives.
04/06/2013 at 10:49 pm #10717There is a third reason for uneven bevels….
If A and B are ruled out, then it means your right arm is stronger than your left and you need to grind more metal off the left side. As you grind more off the left (after the edges have met in the middle), the left bevel will get bigger and the right bevel will get smaller, until they match. When the bevels match you have centred the blade and can then move on to the 200 grit and resume grinding with alternating strokes.04/06/2013 at 8:43 am #10710It seems odd that there is a sub-forum for Kershaw, Benchmade, etc; but not one for Spyderco?
Good question. :huh:[/quote]
Try this: Spyderco Sub-Forum[/quote]
Oh wow, cool thanks. Now I better post something there huh!
04/06/2013 at 8:41 am #10709Yes, because often (usually) a blade is V shaped from heel to tip, so if you line up the back of the blade horizontally, that means that the sharpened edge of the blade angles down in the clamp. The rules of geometry tell us that when the blade angles down, the sharpening bevel angle (using a fixed pivot point) changes. So it is better to have the sharpened edge horizontal and the back of the blade on an angle in the clamp. so using fine markings on each side of a vertical ruler, you can get the blade closer to horizontal, and therefore, the bevel angle will be more consistent, right?
04/06/2013 at 8:30 am #10706This is a really cool idea, maybe a nice new accessory we could put out in a clear plastic with horizontal markings!
Yes, or perhaps a metal “L” with the two holes, so the one side goes out horizontally as it currently does, but the other side goes up vertically, with small increments marked on the left and the right, so you can line up the left and the right side markings to the knife edge and record them. They would have to be fine increments, like mm’s or whatever it is that you yanks use; 16ths or 32ndssss? :blink:
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