Russ

[Russ]

Brilliant idea Dwight!

Thanks! The answer was right under my nose the whole time, but I was too blind to see it (noob here).

I can tell just by looking that will widen the guide arms out an extra inch or so on each side. I only have the 8 inch rods so that may be an issue, but I’ll give it a try. I am using the digital angle cube so the index markings on the sharpener aren’t needed. -Russ

[Russ]

Hi Kyle,

I really like your Youtube video explaining your methodology, thanks for your support. Your method of keeping the same angles makes great sense, but I would like to respectfully point out (please correct me if I’m wrong) that you don’t sharpen any of those knives at separate and independent bevel angles, and you are technically reprofiling each one of them.

What you do is you check the edge angles on each side, then you decide on one fixed angle and you sharpen each knife at that same angle for both sides. It’s my understanding that’s not maintaining the same angles, that’s reprofiling the blade. You keep one side angle, but not the other.

I noticed this because I tried doing what you described, not what I saw you do in the video. I am a noob and have a Gen 3 Commercial edition sharpener, much like your Gen 3.

I wondered how am I going to maintain the current (different) edge angles if the sharpening arms don’t move much independently? The only independent angle adjustments you can make with a Gen 3 are with the micro adjusters, and that takes more time than by just choosing a close match and then sharpen both sides the same time like you are doing in the video.

I have already had several knives where the angles on the same blade do not match and it was very cumbersome and much more time consuming to try and match each angle rather than to just measure one side, pick an angle and then do both the same angle. To do each side individually and maintain their current angles, you have to adjust each micro adjuster AND use a leveling cube.

Like you, I want to be fast as possible with this and still do a quality job. Different people have a different needs for a WE, there’s pet knives where you can spend a lot of time and then there’s a commercial application where speed matters.

I agree the 1000 grit (stock finest grit with a system) is plenty sharp enough compared to what most knife users are used to. For utility knife users, they care about the sharpness and not the polish. The edge quality is probably still better than most belt sander/sharpeners too. However, it’s very difficult to compete for speed against a skilled belt/sander style sharpener who can sharpen a kitchen knife in a minute. It’s the old John Henry vs steam drilling machine story.

Can you please clarify for me, so that I am understanding it correctly as a noob, that what you are doing is finding a current angle for one of the edge sides and then sharpening both sides to that angle?

Because from reading all the literature here on the WE website and terms, etc. the functionality of the sharpener, etc. it sure seems to me that you are reprofiling the blades, maybe creating what you could term a “matching profile”, which would be a minimal form of reprofiling.  Thanks -Russ

 

[Russ]

Marc,

Yes sir, it has the (+/-) tension adjuster. Thanks for the links to other accessories being offered. And I agree with your views on how to approach using it. After just a few days I am more comfortable with it. I find that some knives that have been maintained well are best suited for the sharpie method and then some that are “used and abused”. In those cases, I am better off selecting a suitable edge angle for the particular type knife, set that with the angle cube and start cranking out a burr.

I haven’t had many knives yet that have already been well cared for. I am finding that even the sharper ones are not uniform once I start in with the WE. I suppose if they were, I wouldn’t see them because they wouldn’t need someone else to do it!

There is a charity food court were I live that I volunteered to sharpen the knives for. I did a few knives for them at first and when I went back they gave me a box with 9 of them. Some were very rusted and worn. Some had real deep dips in the middle, so bad you wonder how it happened. Now all the knives are scary sharp and I eat for free…LOL

Here are some photos of what I mean. Some I had to hand file to get a straight edge at all! I don’t really know how to make a knife, but I just started in to it. Once “straight” to me, I started an angle (guesswork) with a mill file, then a cheap harbor freight stone, then to my “good” whetstones. I enjoy sharpening by hand on whetstones too, I find it very relaxing. One knife was an 8 inch chefs knife, high carbon, it was pretty rusty and the handle was nasty but when I got finished I think it was real nice. I used a baking soda past and elbow grease on the blade.

 

 

 

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NotSharpEnuff, Marc H

[Russ]

Marc,

Thanks that explains it all very well! Each knife individually different. Like in forensics.

I somewhat understand the math concepts involved (well, from high school algebra anyway). That’s the reason why I was confused about the readings I was seeing on the digital angle gauge. Once clamped, I expected it to be the same angle reading all the way down the blade as I slowly slid the stone along the bevel from heel to tip and thought, “Wait a minute…it’s supposed to be the same…”. I suppose it is, just not on the digital device as it is moving.

I do have the newer Gen 3 model commercial. I bought it used as you see here (attached). One thing I was wondering is if there is a factory “default” setting I should set it back to, for example, if there are a set number of turns the micro-adjusters come at? Like how carburetors have stock settings for jet screws, etc.

I suppose having the micro-adjusters at a certain OEM setting isn’t critical as long as they are preserved the same for each individual blade. And your example of asymmetrically ground blades means each side can have it’s own, different setting even during the same sharpening session. The micro-adjusters on mine appear to be screwed and locked all the way to the outside (ball up against the holder).

The guy I bought this setup from said those micro-adjuster Jam-Bolts always came loose and he had to use pliers to tighten them enough so they would not wiggle loose. There was some stone wear on the stock jaws, so I’m not so sure he took the time to learn how to use it and set it up properly or if he had narrow blades and wasn’t using the low angle adapter. It included a low angle adapter, but I suspect he learned about that later and bought one after he kept filing the vise jaws when trying to sharpen pocket knives. -Russ

 

 

 

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[Russ]

Marc,

Thanks for your reply, it confirms some things for me and it also brings up some things I had not thought about yet;

You need the key in the vise to hold the reference guide if you plan to use it as designed.

Using the edge height is a reference point for the geometry and settings of the machine, but it’s more valuable as a “theoretical” reference point than a practical one, because if you alter any one factor, edge height, blade length, stone angle, etc., then all the other values change as well. I also noticed even if you have a knife edge at a perfect 5/8″ height from the vise jaws, the length of blades vary and whether or not the blade is centered level in the vise front to back will change the angle of the stones so the reference marks will not match the actual angle.

I have the the digital magnetic angle cube and noticed angle changes as I experimented with a knife in the vise as the stone passes from heel to tip. But since the stones are “floating”, I’m not sure why the angle doesn’t stay the same. That’s the whole idea. I might not be completely understanding this part yet, or I’m doing something wrong.

The sharpie method makes a lot of sense to me, and Kyle at WE just made great a Youtube that demonstrates it. Using the sharpie method to find the current edge angle and then record the vise and numbered angle settings (whether the numbers make sense or not) is the way to go IMO. At least if you want to maintain the current edge angle.

That brings me to another topic maybe for another thread that is related to my original question – if you want to re-profile a knife to say, a 20 degree angle, I would think you would need some sort of reliable “known” 20 degree setting. And that’s where the marked settings, the 5/8″ edge height, etc. come in.

For example, if the knife is ground to say, 30 degrees, the sharpie method only allows you to sharpen at the current 30 degrees.

I have an older Benchmade folder my wife found in the woods (Wow, thanks honey! – go find some more!) and the blade on it had been taken down by a grinder or something. I have been able to sharpen it with my Lansky. I just picked 20 on the Lansky and went to town until sharp not knowing what the actual angle is.

I put it in the WE using the high angle adapter and started to try and re-profile it at 20 degrees based on the sharpie method and the WE marked settings. I wasn’t getting any sharpie off the top of the edge and man, those coarse stones were shredding the steel off so I stopped for fear of having only a Benchmade folding toothpick left!

Got any tips on how I should approach the re-profile of this? I understand that it was modified to way out of OEM specs. I’m thinking I would like to use another tool first, one that I can afford to wear out, like my Lansky or whetstones to get it down to a workable edge angle before I use the WE machine. I don’t want to use my WE as a re-profiling grinder, I don’t think it is intended for that. Or be prepared to buy lots of stones…

Thanks again for the feedback, I’m really liking this so far. -Russ

 

 

 

 

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