Why sharpen to the factory angle?

[Gib Curry]

There is no one comment to quote in this thread….. it’s all good…..

I came to Wicked Edge as a barely competent home sharpener with aspirations of keener edges.

With the WE, by learning to match factory edges I learned a lot about how to inspect a knife’s blade and understand the geometry of the situation.

Now I’m somewhat stuck serving two masters……

1) I wouldn’t mind someday setting up a table at fairs, markets & shows. That means being able to place a knife quickly, repeatedly in a similar position and knocking out some sharp knives quickly.

2) And, I also want to be able to polish the molecules at the edge of the edge of the micro micro bevel.

In some ways they are two cross-augmenting processes — each builds skills and understanding that benefits the other.

Now, I’ve progressed a bit. I haven’t charged anyone a fee nor accepted any money as yet but it is out there that I sharpen knives and a I’ve gotten a few from outside family & friends.

I’m better at asking the right questions to find out the person’s needs and knowledge.

Most people I know have fallen in one of two categories. The first neither know nor care the factory angle. I can whip them out an edge they can be truly scared of, sharper than they’ve known.

Then, there are those people who do know and really care. They can be home chef’s with expensive knives. They can be professionals: chefs, outdoorsmen, etc. Then, there are (to borrow a joke from another thread) those of us with OCD! (Borderline aichmomaniacs!! :dry: )

I’m doing pretty good with the first group and can easily, I believe, satisfy their knife needs. They just want it sharp.

I’m scared spitless to speak to most anyone from the second group. If someone handed me their $5,000 Bob Loveless drop point to sharpen, I would likely just fall over in a faint. And, if they asked me my opinion about the blade steel, I would have to reach under the table to put on my dunce cap….

There’s a knife show in April in Oregon. (It looks like a great show. Anyone coming/going? http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/ ) I’ve looked into the table and signup costs. But, I’m not going to do it this year.

I just simply would be out of my league. Maybe next year.

I might try to attend but only as a spectator. I would be asking questions and absorbing info….

There are reasons to both change and/or keep factory angles….. and in about an hour, I’m going to micro micro bevel my jerky slicing knife. WooHoo! :woohoo:

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For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo James Mitchell]

Well written Gib! The English teacher in me gives you an A+ for composition and grammar! From what we see, you are a wise man and a learner about to set out on an adventure that will test your skills and your confidence. Take the step mate! You can do it!
I don’t think the guy with the 5K Loveless blade will do anything but sing your praises when he sees and tries his new edge. Besides you still have a whole month to further hone your skills.
Best of luck in your adventure.

Leo

[Leo Barr]

I think the factory angle thing perhaps although important on a few knives is perhaps not so important to ordinary folk.
For instance would someone without a WE or an EP be able to tell if a Shun was sharpened as a Global at 15Ëš rather than 16Ëš.
I think it is possible to ut too much attention to these angles .
Part of my self education before buying an Honyaki (which I bought to further my knife knowledge )knife was to find out as much as possible about them the questions I posed chiefly was whether the blade should have a convex bevel or a straight bevel I could not find any reference eventually someone kindly get back to me partly scolding me thinking I was an unlicensed sushi chef but he did proffer an answer which was revealing in itself the blade should be suitable thinned and then once this has been done it is pretty academic whether it be a straight or a convex bevel since the bevel should be virtually invisible ; since a blade of this quality is likely to be sharpened on japanese bench stones all bevels have an element of convex in them.
Now as to confidence in sharpening more expensive blades if someone really knows their blades they will probable be able to sharpen them or know whom to take them to .
Tuffy had a Katana to sharpen the other week which he did an admirable job on for the owner who probable knows he has a good replica of a Katana and it probable hangs on the wall . The real deal is sharpened by someone who has skills way beyond most of us much of the job is polishing and some of these polishing stones are that small one could probable put 3 of them on a finger tip and their stone collections often run into thousands of dollars the skill having taken considerable time to learn under a master I believe most of these masters have probable a minimum of 20 years experience sharpening swords it is quite fascinating.
Now getting back to your fear of sharpening a knife like the one you refers to a Bob Loveless drop point I would say by now that you are probable qualified to sharpen it if it has a V bevel some quality knives do not like Bark River or Fallkniven but all I would suggest is if it were worth a lot show the customer what you have done on other blades so their is no misunderstanding what they are getting and I would possible cover as mush or the blade in painters tape and the scales therefore avoiding any scratches where they should not be I would also use a sharpie on such a knife to determine the angle unless the bevel had been damaged by someone else or needed considerable work but on such a valuable knife I would not expect that.
So the factory angle is really only possible to check if they have the tools to do so and if they have then they would be able to do it themselves.
Here is a link to one of a couple of You tTube films showing Japanese sword sharpening / polishing.
link would not paste here is the title KATANA TOGISHI – Japanese Traditional Sword Sharpner pa

There are three parts to this video

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Leomitch, I will now never be the same knowing my grammar is getting graded again. :blink: lol sorta 😆

Gib, I’m willing to bet you don’t give yourself enough credit. Have you ever seen any of the edges some of these pros put out? I believe that just with what you have learned so far? You are miles in front of some of them!! 😉

[Leo Barr]

I agree with you Eamon we know often new knife have uneven grinds . I have seen quite a few knives destroyed by so called professionals the steel having gone yellow due to sustained over heating or perhaps the finest I have seen was on a Global look at this. The guy ended up missing the edge and ground half way up the blades and the stone was like a 60 grit you could almost cut yourself on the roughness.
So Gib you I or even someone that has just done their first knife on a WE are at a level way above this I am amazed the owner of these Globals did not butcher him.
Unforunately his wife thought she was doing him a favour by handing them over to this knife destroyer .

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[tcmeyer]

Gib:

When you’re sharpening the jerky knife, be very careful to keep all your pinkies attached to the block throughout the stroke. Failure to do so may result in nearly-severed appendages, especially at the far end of the stroke.

I wonder if jerky knives are one of those applications where a toothy edge is an advantage? I was surprised to not sense a significant improvement in cutting over the factory edge. It was one of my very first WEPS knives and I didn’t have a microscope to see what the factory edge really looked like.

[Gib Curry]

Tuffy had a Katana to sharpen the other week which he did an admirable job on…..

Thanks for the video links… They are on my watch list for later this morning.

Thanks, also, for the kind & encouraging words of several. I’ve always tended to be harder on myself than other people.

It’s all in a quest to clearly understand my strengths and weaknesses.

How far I’ve come is quite a bit along the way. How far I have to go seems to be a receding horizon!

I’m comfortable with that — especially as long as I/we continue to have access to this forum and all the real, true experts. (Like Tuffy; among others. Sharpening that sword is amazing to me.)

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To be clear, I have a knife I use for jerky…. I googled “jerky knife” now I want one!! :S

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Robert Nash]

There’s a knife show in April in Oregon. (It looks like a great show. Anyone coming/going? http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/ ) I’ve looked into the table and signup costs. But, I’m not going to do it this year.

Hey Gib – we’ll be there again this year! And hopefully in our usual spot – row N at the back of the room. If you come down stop by and say hello! You can watch how I do it (of course I’m there to sell sharpeners not just sharpen the knives so it is a bit different from the guys in the front of the room with their edge pros – just knocking out knives) You can even give me a break for a bit if you wanted :cheer: Great show if anyone is anywhere near by, and Eugene is a great area to visit in the spring.

Lots of great information here – thanks everyone.

I guess I’m the odd man out in this thread. At shows I always match for the reasons noted – speed. If someone wants something different I’ll do it depending on the line of folks and knives. For my personal stuff I always start at the factory angles and use it and sharpen it a few times (or let Emily use it if it is her’s) to see how it works for how I (she) use it and then I make a decision on what to do with the angle. Most times I end up going lower but several times I haven’t and some I leave exactly where they came to me. So far this method has served me well, and more often then not I’m already happy with the look of the knife too or I wouldn’t have picked it up so am not looking to make any changes there. I suppose I’m a bit more cautious too having heard and helped fix some folks horror stories of removing too much metal or ending up with a mess when they have tried to reprofile something first time out. None of them though were as bad as Leo’s shared photos thank goodness – no grinds half way up the blade. Though I’ve repaired some butchered knives at shows too from some fast moving belts with not so talented artists guiding the knife….

[tcmeyer]

Gib:

I’ve got the High Mountain Knife and Board set as sold at:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hi-Mountain-Jerky-Board-and-Knife-Set/716760.uts

My knife is about ten years old and has a clunky but serviceable cast aluminum handle. Works great.

My best jerky ever was a WY pronghorn I had quartered by the game processor in Newcastle. Trick was to not let it get too dry in the oven. Over-drying seems to take the flavor out.

[Gib Curry]

There’s a knife show in April in Oregon. (It looks like a great show. Anyone coming/going? http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/ ) I’ve looked into the table and signup costs. But, I’m not going to do it this year.

Hey Gib – we’ll be there again this year! ……..

Bob, that is exciting news!! I was thinking about possibly, maybe going but now I’m going to do everything in my power to be there. I’ll run the dates by my wife later today.

If I’m there, I will probably hang around too much….

I had looked for a list of vendors to see if anyone has or will be representing WE. I’m so glad to hear you’ve been to this show before.

I’ll be in touch…..

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Robert Nash]

Be great to meet in person, and you’d be more than welcome to hang around as long as you liked and talk/watch/sharpen….. Every once in a while you can just pretend your buying too :silly: – helps with sales!!! 👿 :whistle:

Hope you can make it

[Citadel99]

Lots of great information here. Thanks for all the replies and input. This Internet thing sure is nice when you are in learning mode…

Mark

[Gib Curry]

Lots of great information here. Thanks for all the replies and input. This Internet thing sure is nice when you are in learning mode…

Mark

Thanks for asking the right questions…..

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Geocyclist]

I did one today at the factory angle. It was a Doug Ritter Mk2 fixed blade. Thick 5mm 1095 carbon steel, 6″ blade for bush crafting. I liked the factory angle, and it was a pretty even bevel left to right and tip to heel. Using a marker it was about 23 degrees per side. I went with 22.5 to completely even out the bevel. I figured for this knife with the intended purpose of bush crafting that it should be 20 to 25 per side. Other than the fact that I like the factory angle my other main reason to match the factory angle was to save time and stone wear. This guy is a beast.

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