tanto-worst blade design ever?

[Zamfir]

During my Christmas Sharpening I sharpened up my Brothers Cold Steel folder worth a Stanton style blade. I always thought the Stanton looked neat. Until I sharpened one and thought about the design. It should have a nice crisp transition from the tip edge to the main edge. This creates a nice little corner where they meet and as the knife gets used that spot wears first. The more you use it the more that edge rounds. The only way to get it back to the way it should be is to grind away the main blade and the tip blade until they meet at a nice point again. So for every little bit you wear away at this stupid corner, you have to take that same amount of steel away from the whole length of the 2 edges! Dumb!

What was a Stanton blade designed to do? For sure not designed for every day carry!
Maybe I am just not thinking about it right or something? Or is there another method to sharpening it properly without removing so much of the steel? It just seems like a really silly blade style design at the moment. Lol. But I got her done. Told him to put it in his safe and just look at it from now on.

Still not perfect but holy cats..Good enough lol.

Attachments:

• tanto.JPG
• tanto1.JPG

[Mr.Wizard]

I have the same reaction to this design. It forces a lot of jobs to be tip (corner) work, when tip work should be limited as a blunt tip requires shortening the blade to correct. (If I need to do a lot of tip work I use a snap knife.)

I think a “solution” is to ignore the design and just grind the corner until its edge is sharp. This will round it but the tiny belly won’t blunt as quickly. I haven’t done that however as I don’t own one.

[Zamfir]

I have the same reaction to this design. It forces a lot of jobs to be tip (corner) work, when tip work should be limited as a blunt tip requires shortening the blade to correct. (If I need to do a lot of tip work I use a snap knife.)

I think a “solution” is to ignore the design and just grind the corner until its edge is sharp. This will round it but it will also create a tiny belly which won’t blunt as quickly. I haven’t done that however as I don’t own one.

If I had to carry one. That would be the only “Solution” for me lol. I might just round it more and more each time I sharpened it until it just became a nice belly. Would be tricky to find the sweet spot for it though..without having to move it and do the tip then the length of the blade. But it could be done..and if it was a user..I would deal a bit with the bevel being a little different on the tip than the flat..lol.. Stupid Tanto. It was fun to sharpen..don’t get me wrong. But for a practical user..Stupid Tanto..lol :sick:

[Mr.Wizard]

I am not a historian but reading leads me to believe that the angular design predates and was replaced by a curved tip on Japanese blades. It seems it did not endure long at all according to this PDF by Paul Martin, and it seems most Tanto had (and have) curved tips. The contemporary use of the angular design is therefore a kind of atavism.

The later designs sometimes retained a slight corner where the curved “kissaki” (tip) joined the body of the blade but I suspect that was to simplify sharpening given the different geometry the kissaki receives:

Other blades blend that line more smoothly:

Images from http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/blog/the-tip-of-the-katana/%5B/url%5D

[Mark76]

Thanks Wizard! Interesting links. (Plus I now know what an atavism is 😉 .)

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Zamfir]

Ditto. Lol. Good to know it did not last long. But also a big difference on a knife usage and a sword. But even with the sword it seems betterto have the blended tip rather than the angle . Which is probably why it dis not last long in the scheme of things over time thanks! I have a reverse Tanto on my random leek. Best of both worlds. Ya get the neat looks but the blade edge is normal.

[tcmeyer]

I always thought there was something not right with the straight-tipped Tanto. I’ve seen quite a few Samurai swords and I couldn’t recall a straight section at the tips, but I know next to nothing about them.

I went to the Rockstead site http://rockstead-knives.com/ and the knives they show with a tanto-type tip all show a gentle curve blended to the straight edge. By the way, Rockstead makes some awesome knives. Have a look also at http://rockstead.jp/

[Mr.Wizard]

But also a big difference on a knife usage and a sword.

Indeed. However I have observed that these blades are often marketed with the idea of “the strength of a Japanese sword” or at least allusion to that idea.

I always thought there was something not right with the straight-tipped Tanto. I’ve seen quite a few Samurai swords and I couldn’t recall a straight section at the tips, but I know next to nothing about them.

Again from what I have seen (e.g. Wikipedia link above but elsewhere too) most authentic Tanto did/do not have the flat-angular design that has become known as “tanto” in American knife marketing.

[Zamfir]

Holy Crap Tom. I hope those are good knifes! If I was drinking something when I looked at the price I would have spit it all over my screen.

They are very nice looking and seem to be designed well. But. ..no Rocksted knives for me. Need to keep feeding the 3 year old and such. :blink:

[tcmeyer]

Eric:

I think it’s LeoBarr who has one of the really high-end Rocksteads, purchased as a collector piece – enough to make my tongue hard. But it led me to buy my Delica in ZDP and I’m really pleased with it. I see now that they are touting YXR7 as a steel superior to ZDP. I’ll have to do a little research… No luck in Spydie land.

Tom

[Zamfir]

Very interesting! I noticed they used the zdp and covered it with vg-10 similar to my calyx 3.5 but that is coated in a cheaper steel. It made me wonder who was using the zdp first. I had only seen it with spydercos up until today. Keep me posted on your search for the other steel in something affordable. Any idea what kind of hardness spyderco is making their zdp to? Those Rocksteds were like 67!

[tcmeyer]

Spydie lists the Delica in ZDP at “about 64RC. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it listed elsewhere at 65.

I remember mentioning that the first time I ran a diamond stone across the ZDP, I got the impression that it had a grandmother who was ceramic. Ziiinng!

I don’t think the quality of the cladding steel would be the difference in hardening them to 65 or 67. Maybe your Caly is harder than 64???

[Zamfir]

Ohhh..I have no idea. I was just saying the Rocksteads were at 67. I had no idea what the Caly and Stretch are at hardness wise. They seem to sharpen the same. Not as hard to sharpen as I thought they would be. They sharpen and touch up real nice. Both the Caly and Stretch seem to sharpen up the same. I have no way to test the harness besides how they feel and sharpen lol.

the comment on cladding was just that Rockstead used a better steel to clad than Spyderco did and had nothing to do with what I thought hardness was at.

[Victor]

This is an entry basic William Henry GenTact. It is clad ZDP189 @ 67HRC, made in Japan by Hitachi. No problem sharpening and holds an edge.

It is tinny when comparing individually but it feels good in hand:

[tcmeyer]

Nobody on this forum would have any problems sharpening knives this hard, as we all use diamonds. In other forums and in Amazon reviews I’ve seen complaints about sharpening being particularly difficult. Duh! Buy yerself a WEPS!

Here’s another toot about hardness. I’m sure I’ve said it before but I have to say it again. All my other folding knives and kitchen knives suffer from plastic deformation from contact with particularly hard surfaces like bones. You get a dent in the edge that looks like a saddle. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that on my ZDP Delica. Yes, it gets dull, but sharpenings are more of a touch-up than an overhaul. Hardness is the only logical difference.

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