Strop vs Lapping Film
- This topic has 30 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 05/05/2017 at 6:09 am by
.
-
If lapping film doesn’t have the danger of rounding the edge and is available down to 0.10 micron, why use strops? I assume one could bet to a razor sharp, mirror polish edge with one or the other alone, so why both? Is it steel type? Is it personal preference? Is there a rhyme and reason for one vs. the other?
I am truly curious and trying to learn. Thanks to all for your input.
Also, what is the difference between the HHT-1/2/3/4/etc. tests?
1 user thanked author for this post.
Sometimes you need to reduce the the edge width, or remove a micro foil, or even think of it like creating a double bevel although convex. You can even stop at a coarser grit like 1000 maybe, strop it and have a polished toothy edge. I am new to the wicked edge and just learning myself. I read everything I could and settled on the wicked edge for guided sharpening. Below is an excellent blog with pictures of razor blade edges from an electron microscope. Excellent write ups too on different stropping material and how they work or don’t work. Leather Strops/Diamond Films/Shapton glass/Chosera/ Balsa /Roo/Nanocloth/Cereal box, these are all instruments and you get to be the artist, there are so many different edges you can produce with these tools, that is the fun for me. You can make this system as complicated or as simple as you want. It has become my hobby, so I am going the complicated route, great fun! Enjoy the journey.
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/the-pasted-strop-part-1/
1 user thanked author for this post.
Sorry I missed the question about HHT. This is a copy and paste of the best answer I found when I was looking too, not that long ago.
HHT stands for Hanging Hair Test, its pretty controversial but here is the gist of it.
<h2>Standardization of the test</h2>- Moisten the hair. This avoid all possible variations in outcome, due to fluctuations in humidity of storage conditions. A good way to do this, is to wet the thumb and index finger, pinch the hair and drag it through. Allow the hair a few seconds to settle.
- When performing the test, hold the hair at the tip side and slightly angle the edge of the razor away from you. This maximizes the possibility for the edge to catch between the cuticle shingles.
- Scale of possible results:
- HHT-0 – shave:The hair can be shaved immediately at the holding point. This is strictly spoken not a true HHT, but it does tell us that the edge is capable of shaving. [all other attempts must be made at least half an inch from the holding point]
- HHT-1 – violin : The hair doesn’t cut, but it “plays violin” with the edge. This is due to the shingles catching the edge, but it’s not sharp enough to penetrate. On a full hollow razor, a faint ringing sound can be heard. On all razors it can be felt with the fingertips that hold the hair.
- HHT-2 – split: When it is dragged across the edge, the edge catches the hair and splits it lengthwise.
- HHT-3 – catch&pop: When it is dragged across the edge a bit, the edge catches the hair and pops it. The severed part will jump away.
- HHT-4 – pop: The hair is popped immediately when it touches the edge. It still jumps away.
- HHT-5 – silent slicer: The hair falls silently as soon as it touches the edge.
2 users thanked author for this post.
Since the release of the WE Lapping Films, I only use the strops for “convexing” edges or making a “convexed bevel”. Basically, I place multiple facets on the blade and then blend them together to form a near perfect convex with a strop and diamond paste. This is a very effective technique and you can see Clay performing it on a Chris Reeve- Sabenza (Click here for link). The flexibility of the strop leather is what allows this to work so well. Give it a try! I think you will love the result.
Eddie Kinlen
M1rror Edge Sharpening Service, LLC
+1(682)777-16221 user thanked author for this post.
Yeah, I forgot that. I use a strop for that purpose, too: https://moleculepolishing.wordpress.com/2012/03/24/creating-a-convex-edge-using-the-wicked-edge-conclusions/
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
1 user thanked author for this post.
Rich Participant Topics: 2 Replies: 9 The main question here is strop vs lapping film… When to choose one or the other.
Lapping films are generally going to be more aggressive than strops. Their thinness gives them less compression and more perfection, and the diamond films will cut through all materials. Strops give more, and lend themselves to finishing or tweaking more than films, IMO. With the precision of the WEPS, you get a more perfect triangle tip, which is thinner as the edge approaches that zero width. By finishing with a strop, you can slightly convex that edge of the edge to give back some thickness and rigidity. You can also use the strops for maintenance to continually touch up the edge of the edge (through convexing) without actually reestablishing the bevels fully. But in the end, it’s as Molon stated, that the beauty is in the choices available. As you get more time in on your WEPS, you will hopefully start diving down the rabbit hole head first into all the accessories so that you can challenge yourself and see what the different options yield. The combinations are endless!
2 users thanked author for this post.
Jende Industries, thank you for your insight! It was very helpful. I finally received my strops, cow leather to start, and am anxious to try them out. I have been a bit hesitant given the commentary on dulling the edge due to rounding it off. As I think about it, if you are doing both sides at a 1 to 1 pace, the rounding should be a non issue, correct? That be the case, is it necessary to back off 1 – 2 degrees? It seems that the change in angle would impact the shape of the edge bevel the most. Again, trial and error is the fun!
Oh, and regarding the rabbit hole you referred to, I’m already deep!!
1 user thanked author for this post.
The trick to leather -and all finish stropping- is a super light touch. You’d be surprised how easy it is to manipulate the edge of the edge. There is an overall consensus on backing of 1-2 degrees when switching over to stropping yields better results than keeping the same angle as the stones. At the finishing stages, you’ll only need 2-5 strokes on clean strops to align the edge. if you are going with loaded strops, then you will need to experiment to see which works best for the way you manipulate the paddles, with pressure being the biggest influence on compression and rounding of the edge.
2 users thanked author for this post.
From my experience I think the diamond films would be a great tool for mirror polishing the bevel. If “perfect” mirror isn’t the main focus, then a few light strokes with the strop will make the edge a little sharper than just stones alone. For knives without mirror polishes, simply going through the stones and leather strops give me really sharp results.
My troubles with leather strops have mostly been its usage in the chase for scratchless mirror while keeping a single flat facet on the bevel. Polishing with leather tends to turn the edge into a convex one (ever so slightly). It’s really a struggle to polish without using much pressure.
So I think the application and end results determine which tool is your best option. For me I have not invested into the diamond films. My mirror polishing is mostly done with diamond paste on cardboard from a cereal box.
I am guessing that the diamond films will replace my cereal box strop in due time.
3 users thanked author for this post.
I can’t really answer the question of films vs. strops (‘cause I don’t have any films)… but I wanted to comment a bit about stropping with leather.
First… don’t be afraid of pressure. When I first started sharpening (this part was pre-W.E.)… I would take what I thought was a sharp edge, and strop it. I would find, as many do, that the strop seemed to “kill” the edge… often described as “rounding”, no longer has bite, etc. And the solution given… use as little pressure as possible. For me, doing this seemed to either still “kill” the edge, or result in no improvement… to the point where I didn’t bother.
But after watching numerous videos of people stropping, often with significant pressure and getting good results (Clay for example, use to report stropping with enough pressure he would start to lift the base)… I knew I was missing something. So, occasionally I would revisit it.
Over time, I found that stropping would improve my edge… and I didn’t have to use “light pressure” to get good results. I can now strop with pressure, make the occasional “greater angle” stroke, etc. and find that it usually only improves the edge. Why? Can’t say definitively, but my best guess is… it’s because I learned to create a proper edge prior to stropping (sharp and burr free). A proper edge will benefit from stropping, an improper one will often die. (I think another part is the right compound… “green compound”, for example, is no good for a sharp edge IMO).
The other thing is the convex part… (this is on the W.E.) So little convex is created… it essentially doesn’t matter. As a test this a.m. (just to make sure nothing cropped up)…. I created a flat bevel, then stropped the crapola out of it with the 10m/5m “regular leather” strops… with some pretty significant pressure (I have a panavise attached to a granite base, and was rocking the whole thing back and forth… so… pretty significant), and at the same angle. Then I remarked the blade with the Sharpie, and checked the edge with a stone… and the marker was removed along the entire bevel width in one stroke… and no convex detected under my handheld scope. Now, my strops are pretty old, and somewhat stiff (like my joints), so that plays into it I’m sure (I’ll spritz them with alcohol which over time also stiffens them up)… but like I said, I was stropping pretty hard, and detected no convex… none that I could tell anyway. (And I got a very sharp knife).
I do think you can create a ‘faux’ convex as stated above (multi bevels, then blend it with leather), but the stones do most of the work. Also, nothing wrong with using alternative media, as some have written…. for example, my freehand stropping is now often done on paper.
Anyway… my .02. Don’t take my word for it… take a beater knife and a Sharpie… and test some of it out. (Mark the blade between stones and strops, so you can see what’s going on). Maybe new leather will require a 1 deg. decrease in angle… but strops I’ve found are more forgiving than most assume… especially given the proper edge and compound to begin with.
4 users thanked author for this post.
When the topic goes to stropping and angles I always remember back when I was a kid and the barber would strop his straight razor on a tightly horizontally held leather belt strop, slapping it down then pulling it across, turning the straight razor over, slapping it back down and dragging it back the other way as the belt deflected and wrapped up around the razor. The barber seemed to apply a lot of pressure and certainly there was no attention placed on to the angle the razor made with the belt. So I definitely think pressure helps and I haven’t yet made my decision on what angle it’s best to strop at relative the bevel angle.
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)1 user thanked author for this post.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.