Spyderco Southard – What am I doing wrong?

[Al B]

I can’t seem to figure out how to clamp this knife and ended up tilting the front of the blade up in an effort to get the tip set right. I assume it’s something I;m doing and not the factory grind. I’m using a Sharpie and the 1000 grit stone.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

I would try bringing it back just a bit? And maybe leveling it out a bit? There are instructions I found very helpful when I first started out under resources.
Try this link Good luck and don’t be afraid to ask questions everyone is really eager to help!
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=38&Itemid=81

[Al B]

About how much further back?

[Phil Pasteur]

Try maybe 1/4 to 1/2″ and try it. Once you are getting the sharpie off to the edge you are good.
Some kinves you just need to play with a bit.

I think the angle may be OK..but you can tweak that too. Just record everything once you get it right as much as possible so you can touch it up more easily when you need to.

Also, keep in mind, you do not have to precisely duplicate the factory grind..

[cbwx34]

Also, unless I’m not awake yet… tilting it up is the wrong direction to go to correct this.

[Phil Pasteur]

I think you must be awake..
But, how many variables do we ask him to juggle at once?
I typically try to have the spine of the knife contact both pins on the depth gauge and adjust the lenght for proper coverage of the tip. This is more for repeatability than anything. There are some knives that this just doesn’t work out on.

[Mark76]

But, how many variables do we ask him to juggle at once?

Indeed. When I first read this topic, my reaction was: nothing. I just didn’t post it.

My intuition as well says to move the blade back a little and tilt it up a little. However, that’s just to minimize angle changes over the entire bevel. That’s not something you (should) worry about on your first few knives.

You clamped it in using tape, even protected the pivot with tape. The knife should come out fine and very sharp.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Al B]

Thanks for the replys. I will level the knife out and move it back some more to get the tip right. I agree with the repeatability comment and if the bevel changes slightly I’m not going to worry about it too much. Some things you just have to accept I guess. I’m going to order the Pro Pack II arms this week though as the thought of the angles not being identical is just about enough to put me over the edge.:blink:

[Phil Pasteur]

Another budding OCD sharpener… a man after my own heart!
🙂

I think that the ball joint arms are a worthy upgrade. This is both due to the ball joints and the slightly larger diameter rods. Having said that, the original style joints, especially with the way WEPS is sending them out now with the tolerances tightened, are actually very good. There are a bunch of us that used nothing else for quite some time and got rather amazing results.

My thought is that neither the joints nor the rods caused the imbalance that you saw. This can be caused by several things which have been discussed here previously.

My point is that even with getting the upgrade, you need to pay attention to knife mounting, angle setting, and working both sides equally. If not, you will likely see the sort of results that you saw… and did not like.

So I say … get the new arms and ball joints… just don’t think they are a substitue for the prerequisites…
😉

[Al B]

I ended up getting a pretty decent edge on this knife. I could have stropped it more but it’s OK for now. I will definitely be ordering the new arms as I can’t get the degrees down enough on this particular blade and I’m sure I will find that out on other knives somewhere down the road.

[Phil Pasteur]

I don’t find that I can get significantly more acute angles with the new ball joint arms and vise riser.

Can anyone else comment?

[Al B]

Interesting. I thought there was an ability to go to 13 degrees per side with the new arms and riser.

[Phil Pasteur]

Check the thread where Clay introduced the prototype vise low angle extension. Some of the testers compared the most acute angle that they could get with the current PPII setup with those with the extension.
With on particular small knife I could only get around 14 degrees with the extension. Of course the greater the distance from the spine to the edge, the more acute an angle can be achieved…

Anyway, take a look there are several examples of only around 14 degrees available with the PPII riser.
Now if you chuck up a 2.5 inch cleaver, you can go a lot lower.

That is why I asked for comments. I can’t remember all of the comments on minimum angle that were posted when the PPII came out. I think 13 degrees would be a special case of a pretty wide (tall in the vise) blade.

To be honest, I never have paid much attention. I don’t think I have anything in a steel that would really support a relatively hard use edge at much under 15 degrees. I do have quite a selection of different steels…I have not sharpened any of the rare super hard super expensive Japanese blades.

I would not even worry about 13 degrees with S30V or the like…

EDIT:
Here is the thread:
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=13&id=10719&limit=10&limitstart=60&Itemid=63

It looks like Ken hit 12.2 on one knife with the riser. Others, not nearly that… not sure why.

[Al B]

I wasn’t able to get under 18 degrees (as per the angle gauge) with this particular blade. I think the steel on this one is capable of taking a 15 degree edge quite easily. (CTS 204P)

[cbwx34]

I wasn’t able to get under 18 degrees (as per the angle gauge) with this particular blade. I think the steel on this one is capable of taking a 15 degree edge quite easily. (CTS 204P)

I don’t have that knife (and don’t have the original arms set up right now), but on an Endura clamped in (top holes, tip at A.5), with the upgrade setup, I can hit 15 deg. per side. Would have to play around a bit, if I wanted to go lower.

18 seems a bit high, even with the original arms, but not having them set up right now, maybe I’m missing something.

You can go a bit lower by raising the knife in the clamp… again just keep track of how you set it up.

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