Sharpie – what type of tip?
- This topic has 12 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 06/06/2017 at 8:17 am by
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Quick noobie question. When using the Sharpie to judge what angle to choose what tip do you want> Fine, superfine or chisel perhaps?
Martin
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Chisel or broad tip. You want to mark/color/cover a relatively large portion to see where the stone is meeting the blade. Anything fine/or super fine would be an exercise in frustration. . . .it would take many, many strokes of the marker to color in the blade.
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I use the chisel-shape. You want the tip wide-enough to easily center on the cutting-edge. Let the knife cut into the tip of the marker as you run it along the whole blade . It will develop a slot that makes it even easier to index in the future, and guarantee both sides of the edge get painted in 1-pass.
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Welcome to the forum , JonestheGas and Nick. And thanks for the answer, Nick!
I also use the chisel or wide tip. You want a relatively large portion of the edge to be colored, so you can see exactly where you are removing steel. In practice you’ll remove also the ink from the wide tip. And if you happen to have colored too much, you can easily remove the ink with acetone or something similar.
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
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Gone for the chisel tip thanks. My Gen 3 Pro should be with me in 2 or 3 days. Purchased from Knives and Tools from The Netherlands. Only selling the 2016 version. Didn’t realize there was a 2017 version until after I had ordered. Grrr
Martin
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I have the 2016 version. It is great, so I know you won’t be disappointed. Clay has said that there will be some upgrades available for the 2016 model in the near future.
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As you say it’s all about your technique. I have a knife I’m sharpening in the clamp right now. I’m only to the second stone in my progression, a 500 grit stone, and the knife is already scary sharp. Get the basics down. All the sharpening accessories you can buy and use won’t over come poor technique.
Marc
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Got my Gen 3 Pro now and had a go last night. Great fun! I have a USB microscope. I used the Sharpie as above. I set an angle I thought appropriate to the knife and got the sharpie off right to the edge. Then I wondered if I had to big an angle and was creating a microbevel? So I went the other way until I didn’t quite take the sharpie to the edge. Then worked the other way until I just got it off to the edge. Is that what I should be doing? I then recorded the angle with the cube. I have only the supplied stones at present. Diamond 1500 arriving in a couple of weeks and I have the 6 micron diamond tape lined up. Question is, with good technique, how sharp can you get a decent kitchen knife with the 1000 grit diamond plate? Another question, does the advanced alignment guide fit the Gen 3 pro vice? It didn’t seem to on mine unless I’m doing something wrong? Martin
I’m assuming that you are intending to match the bevel angle already on the knife rather than re-profiling the bevel. It sounds like you are doing it correctly. If the angle is matched, you should be able to color in the bevel with the sharpie and then cleanly remove all of the sharpie with a few passes using the 1000 grit plates. If the angle is too acute, you will see sharpie remaining at the edge of the bevel nearest the cutting edge. If the angle is too obtuse, you will have remaining sharpie at the edge nearest the primary grind of the knife.
The advanced alignment guide doesn’t neatly lay flush on my clamp either. I hold it in place with the depth key while I’m reading it so that it doesn’t move. I do wish that the team at WE had made it fit more elegantly, but it certainly accomplishes the job and it doesn’t cost much. I use mine once a week for mounting my main chef knife and it does an excellent job. I always use the sharpie method to check if it is positioned correctly and I have never had to make an adjustment. I love it.
How sharp is a difficult question to answer because most people don’t have an empirical method to test sharpness. That said, the edge that can be produced by the WE 1000 grit plates should easily slice paper, shave hair well (but not with as much ease as a more refined edge), and will provide a very enjoyable cutting experience for the majority of kitchen tasks. If you’ve been using a mass produced knife, I would expect this to be a significant improvement over the factory edge. I wouldn’t expect a knife with a 1000 grit edge to be very good at the gimmick of cutting tomato slices with one hand, but it will undoubtedly cut a tomato cleanly and smoothly under actual usage. I usually finish my kitchen knives on the 6 micron film after the 1500 grit diamond plate (simply because I can) and the edge is really nice.
Make sure to practice sharpening on knives you don’t care about before going for your good knives. The diamond plates will need time to break in (about 7-10 sharpenings based on my experience) and it helps a lot to get a feel for the ergonomics of the WE sharpening process.
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Now done about 10 knives or so. More questions for you guys..
Not sure about burr. I take it that it is of no use in itself but just tells you you are hitting the apex of the blade? Do people usually remove it after every stone and check with the next that you are still getting an even burr?
I have a few filleting knives that are flexible. I found sharpening these near the tip tricky as the knife bends. Do people move the knife in the vise so that it is much nearer the tip than usual?
As I said earlier, 1000 grit stone is the finest stone I have at present. When I got to the end, the knives were certainly not scary sharp as MarcH put it above. Need to improve my technique. Any links anyone can share to get best results?
Martin
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Martin, keep at it, work on refining a technique that gives you the results your looking for. The stones are still new, they’ll improve more with continued use. Concentrate on keeping the stone flat against the entire bevel, top to bottom, the entire range of motion of the stone as you move through your strokes, (no matter whether your stroke is scrubbing, edge leading edge trailing or horizontal). The edge I referred to as “scary sharp” was a resharpen job so in essence I was just refining an established bevel.
When I first started sharpening with the WE I thought there were absolute rules; right and wrong. Now I know it’s a process. It’s not all black and white. It’s also subjective and requires your judgement call. Sharp is sharp but how sharp sharp is a matter of opinion and subjectiveness. Yes there are scientific and mechanical tests for sharpness but I assume your not doing that.
Flexible fileting knives are tricky. Yes clamping it closer to the tip is a good option. It certainly will lessen the flex holding it closer to the end. I really believe you can’t do anything wrong as long as what you do allows you to center your metal removal continually at the same place as you work up and down the blade, from heel to tip. That is very important.
Once I raise a burr I know I have removed enough metal that my sharpening efforts have reached the apex or the cutting edge of the blade. As long as future efforts continue to work on that same place on the knife, over and over, then raising a burr in my opinion is removing unnecessary metal. Once I have a burr and remove it by using alternating bilateral strokes to even out the bevel on both sides I feel the edge for sharpness. If I have a sharp feel, with each stone in my progression I double check my work by feeling for the sharpness which should improve as the grits get finer. You also can double check your efforts visually if you have a tool like a loop or microscope.
Hope some of this is helpful.
Marc
Marc
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Now done about 10 knives or so. More questions for you guys.. Not sure about burr. I take it that it is of no use in itself but just tells you you are hitting the apex of the blade? Do people usually remove it after every stone and check with the next that you are still getting an even burr? I have a few filleting knives that are flexible. I found sharpening these near the tip tricky as the knife bends. Do people move the knife in the vise so that it is much nearer the tip than usual? As I said earlier, 1000 grit stone is the finest stone I have at present. When I got to the end, the knives were certainly not scary sharp as MarcH put it above. Need to improve my technique. Any links anyone can share to get best results? Martin
You are correct that the burr is to let you know you have reached the apex and are now working the edge. If you don’t get to an apex the knife can’t get sharp. After the first stone or 2 I don’t work up a burr on the rest but I do reset my angle with an angle cube on every stone as every stone is not exact. A slight difference in thickness or play in the paddle can cause them to be as much as .4 to .5 deg different than other stones. So check your angle and look at the edge to make sure you are flat on the bevel and reaching the apex on every stone. MarcH is absolutely correct that you need to find what works for you and trying different techniques and getting advice are good avenues to learn what works for you, there aren’t many absolutes when it comes to sharpening. Your stones after 10 knives are just starting to break in and will continue to get better and better from this point on.
I’ve done quite a few fillet knives and I hold the knife edge with my off hand and then switch one side then the other. A much slower process but if you let the knife flex to much it will be very difficult to get consistent angle and thus a sharp edge. Light pressure and take your time on these is the best advise I can give you on those knives. The nearer to the tip you can clamp it will take some of the flex out of the tip but I’ve found on fillet knives that the blades are very low profile so this can make it hard to get to close to the tip and sharpen at the angle that most fillet knives will benefit from as your stone may hit the clamp.
Good luck to you and all the best
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