Sharpening Journal
- This topic has 16 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 02/05/2018 at 7:52 pm by
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JGreat video!!! Love seeing time paparazzi Working on some shots tonight with my son, juniorL, while he sharpens a Bubba blade 9” Stiffie. Yes, that’s a knife.
-PapaL
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Finally have everything to reprofile my Ferrum Forge Crux.
It’s really relaxing to do with the Wicked Edge.
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That you for taking the suggestion to slow your video production down and use the opportunity to try to share your sharpening experiences while trying to educate WE users. I much preferred this speed and style. I was finally able to see what you’re showing us and hear your story or explanation at the same time, while watching a video that was synchronized, sound with actions.
You certainly did show how easy it was for you to use the LAA. You cleared up one ambiguity for me, while introducing another one. I wasn’t sure exactly which you were speaking about in your earlier higher speed videos. You stated this knife you will be sharpening, (Ferrum Forge Crux), would be done at 25° inclusive for the primary bevel. Now we’re clear your angle terminology is “Inclusive ” angles. Normally, or should I say in my experience, most WE users describe angles as one sided only with “degrees per side”, (dps). I believe this is probably as you illustrated because each side, angle and micro-angle adjustments, are set independently. You showed us how you set the right and left side rod arms to 12.5°, also, correcting for the clamping lean. Your particular model Digital Angle Cube’s software requires you to subtract the digital “read-out” angle from 90° because it only has a magnetic base to which it attaches to the knife. To take the separate angle values and combine them to be an inclusive angle is an added step, and an opportunity for confusion or ambiguity to any knife sharpener. I am OK with this mixed use of terminology as long as it’s made clear whether we’re discussing inclusive angles or separate degrees per side. I wasn’t following your intermingled use of both terminologies, in the earlier videos. Even the newer Gen 3 Pro model, with the center lever angle adjustment, although it does change both side angles simultaneously with the slide of the one lever, the angles inscribed on the base are in units of degrees per side. Anyway, I believe now were clear on terminology.
At the beginning of this video you said,” I will try to really grind down the bevel and give it a fuller micro-bevel in the process.” I believe you also used the term micro-bevel in your last video, so I was waiting to see how you would do that. There are always good questions and forum conversation when the discussion is about “when and how do I apply a micro-bevel?”
“L” as we watched you set the 30° inclusive angle and followed a stone progression visually and listened to your explanation, it became clear you were actually adding or profiling the knife with an additional bevel closer to the knife edge. I have to say again I’m find ambiguity with your terminology and without it making it clear, it can be very confusing. By my understanding it was not a micro-bevel. The set angle was appropriate for a micro-bevel, but because you followed a full stone progression then followed with a polished edge it was indeed a full 15° (dps), 30° inclusive bevel profile.
We have had several forum posts and forum conversations whether the 12.5° (dps), 25° (incl.) is the primary bevel because it was, as shown, applied first. While the 15° (dps), 30° (incl.) bevel was applied secondarily, it’s position on the knife edge will first or primarily contact the material to be cut, first. I’m not sure this is an ambiguity. I want to consider it an opportunity to be very clear on your use of terminology. That being said call it what you like as long as you make it clear to those your discussing it with.
The second bevel “L” applied by my observation and understanding and use of terminology is a full secondary bevel. Not a micro-bevel. To be clear on the difference, a micro-bevel is a finishing light touch applied with a high grit stone to the very edge of the knife blade apex. It can be almost unnoticeable, and if you weren’t aware it was there it could be easily missed.
“L” thank you for taking the criticism and advice, and then taking the time and attempting to make your video a learning and educating experience. Well done. It certainly will stimulate a lot of views and healthy Forum conversation over the use of terminology, sharpening technique, equipment use and content over-all.
Marc
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I like the new style with the additional time on explaining what’s going on. The pictures of the edge looked really good and were very helpful in showing what you were talking about.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone go through a whole grit progression with the micro bevel before. What I’ve seen Clay do is to go through his whole progression and then add a micro bevel at the very end with a high grit stone like the 1000 and then do a few stropping passes. Is there a reason you decided to do a full progression for the micro bevel? It looks like the end result was a pretty sharp knife.
Another way to avoid scratching the blade is to make sure that you never let the stone go past the edge. Masking tape should also do the trick.
Nice video!
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Thanks for the tip on terminology, I would stay consistent in the future.
I went from 400 as I have found some micro chipping towards the tip from the 100/200 plates when I was doing the primary bevel, it did clean that up nicely. But yes if there are none I would just do 800 and up.
Will do more of these video.
If you don’t want to add a micro bevel and you want to get rid of the chipping left from the 100 grit stone you can intentionally grind down the apex by drawing the knife edge across the face of a stone a few times and then re-apex the knife with the 400 grit stone at the same angle as before. I have done this and it works well.
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Nice video L. Well done and thanks for sharing your experience as a new user of the WE. It’s interesting to watch you with the WE given your past experience with sharpening. Thanks
If your chipping problem isn’t to bad the rest of the progression can take it out. After the 100 stones looking at the edge with a microscope all my edges look chipped due to the coarseness of the stone. Very light pressure with the course stones can save some metal and some time in the long run especially with harder steel.
Also I haven’t seen anyone who didn’t scratch one knife in the beginning, it’s very easy to due.
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After the 100 stones looking at the edge with a microscope, all my edges look chipped due to the coarseness of the stone. Very light pressure with the course stones can save some metal and some time in the long run especially with harder steel.
SKSharp is correct in his observation by my experience. I use this chipped appearing edge, from the large particle size coarse 100 grit diamond stones, as an indication that my sharpening process has reached the knife edge, that is I’ve “apexed the edge.” This chippy or ragged appearing knife edge if seen on both sides of the knife edge is, for me, the indicator that it’s time to move up my stone progression to a finer grit. It saves me the time, effort and wasted knife steel, to draw a burr. If your unable to see this chipped or ragged edge it may be necessary for you to continue your sharpening strokes till you create the burr.
As I continue with the 200 grit diamond stone I will see a similar ragged, chippy apexed bevel but to a lesser degree, especially if a visual magnification tool is used. As I continue through the stone progression to finer and finer grits if I do it correctly employing enough strokes my bevel becomes smoother and smoother. The smaller and smaller particle size of the higher grits makes the chipping less and less discernable.
If I’m sharpening a knife I previously sharpened with my Wicked Edge, or a knife with an edge that is in relatively good condition I may be able to skip these coarser grit stones and begin my sharpening process with a 400 grit or possibly a 600 grit diamond stone.
Marc
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Just brought the Opinel back home for a small fix. Imo an essential knife.
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Hi Loremipsum,
If you’re not totally satisfied with how the knife cuts you should consider putting the knife back in the clamp and spend a few moments stropping the edge. I think you’ll find that just a little bit of stropping will substantially improve how smoothly the knife cuts paper. I strop every knife I sharpen even if I only go to the 600 grit stone.
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Thank you Loremipsum for your latest contribution.
I have a question for you to clarify something said in the video, you said when you had previously sharpened the Opinel, “the bevel was too thin.” Are you saying the sharpening angle you used was too acute, that you used too low an angle?
I’m wondering what experience or thoughts brought you to spritz the diamond stones with water before using them. What are you accomplishing with that? Has it proved helpful?
You’re mixed or intermingled use of the terms “created a new micro-bevel, a new bevel,” I find this a little confusing or ambiguous. My understanding is a micro-bevel is a tiny sized, wider or more obtuse angled bevel, applied on top of the knife’s edge cutting bevel to give added durability while still maintaining most of the characteristics of the cutting edge’s bevel. Generally the micro-bevels I’ve seen applied are 2° to 3° (per side) wider than the main bevel. These are generally applied using very light pressure to keep this micro-bevel tiny sized. I usually employ a very high grit stone, like the micro-ceramics for this chore and very light touch and pressure.
I appreciate your sharpening insights you’ve shared. I agree with your statement that sharpening knives is “a mix of experience, preference, theory and opinion.” I find sharpening to be both a physical and an intellectual hobby.” Like you’ve said in earlier videos, “a Zen experience.”
I realize the DLF’s are consumable, less durable and more costly to use, so you use them sparingly. I consider your coveted diamond lapping film just a further, finer grit, progression of my diamond stones. I find that I can get, an improved, crisper, smoother paper cutting test, finishing any sharpened edge with the leather strops. More so, then the DLF. The DLF’s, I use when I’m looking to put a very polished “for show” bevel on a knife. When properly done, the DLF edge is usually a very sharp, thin, wired edge, yet not the most durable. It too, also benefits with stropping.
Marc
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Hi Organic,
Thanks for the tip, will definitely do it.
Hi Marc,
The Opinel has been in my workplace for some time. Honestly I really couldn’t remember what I did to it previously (I freehand sharpen knives in the office from time to time), but the edge tore paper when I cut it, still very good for the baguette as you see in the video, but I wanted more stability ad uniformity. So yes “acute” should be the word.
The water spray reduce friction, but more importantly it traps metal particles. I did not do it on the WE previously and I feel funny in my throat after. Spraying water eliminated the problem.
I see the point on the micro-bevel thing, which I am aware of. I am trying to put a very stable “microbevel” on the existing bevel that was on the knife. So yes, the predominant technique would involved very light passes, but judging from the thin geometry of the Opinel, I believe taking a bit more material off for even greater stability is not bad – although one may argue I could just do it as the bevel wears out, which I certainly agree.
Also agree good insight on the DLF and strops. I am really liking the Kangaroo strops on the WE and I am certainly tempted to acquire the benchstrops from Jende.
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At one time Clay, the owner of Wicked Edge, would work with a shallow pan with soapy water and a sponge, on his sharpening work space. He would press the diamond stones against the soap water wet sponge before using them. This does help to control the steel dust without using too much water. With water comes rust so I’d try to limit how wet I get my diamond stones.
When I have a knife steel that seems to give off a lot of steel dust, (different steels behave differently), I will work with a particle dust filter mask. I too have experienced the feeling in my throat so I know it can’t be good for the lungs!
I had the same comment about your use of the terminology, micro-bevel, in your last video. When it is the size and the distinctness that you’re applying I really consider that a secondary bevel. The micro-bevel as I have learned and experienced it is very tiny and often applied with only one grit and with just a few strokes. Like I said previously, it’s almost unnoticeable if you didn’t know to look for it.
The Jende strops look interesting for a quick touch up. When you start mixing sharpening techniques, devices and sharpening styles I feel you may not realize the true benefits of either method if use solitarily.
Marc
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Thank you Marc, I will take a look into the tray.
I reserve the Wicked Edge for my premium knives and I freehand cheap knives, swords, halberds and axes. For anti-personnel and non-hardened materiel a rougher edge is alright.
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