Running laps
- This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 01/31/2018 at 4:12 pm by
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Just wondering how many actually lap. Thier blades and process
My process is; After finishing with 1500 I move to 6 Mic then to 3 then 1 and .5 and .1 diamond film
Finish off stropping with 1/4 diamond and .10 diamond spray using balsa (imagine that)
Producing an extremely sharp edge and under 200x mag. Blade is clean so far I’m loving the results
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I’m more of a lightweight sharpener, so I don’t lap. I do want a really sharp knife, but it seems I can get it so sharp just with the diamond stones that I stop there. But I am curious if you test the sharpness at each step, or at least prior to the stropping; and, if so, how much difference does it make?
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I usually go from 1500-grit diamond to 6 micron film. Depending on my mood or patience, I may also use 3 micron film. There’s been some discussion about 0.5 micron film producing inappropriate scratch patterns, so some of us may jump from 1.0 microns to 0.1 microns.
A qualifier is that I almost never deliberately try for a mirror finish. My intent is to achieve a polish that will reduce the friction between the knife and the material being cut and there’s little to be gained below 3 micron film. I follow this even when I’m planning to add a micro-bevel.
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This is a good thread for a noob like me to watch.
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I have used lapping films with the sole intention to see if I could attain the perfect mirror edge. That’s when I came away realizing or better, forming the opinion that the DLF are nothing more then very fine grit diamond stones. The DLF’s do need to be use with more care though, due to the film backing cutting and gouging easily. They behave like regular diamond stones do, with just finer and finer scratch patterns. At the end I found I achieved a very fine thin elongated apex, a “wire edge” that was extremely sharp but not really durable. The real polished look still didn’t come till I finished the edge with a progression of strops and compounds.
Marc
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Hello LV and glad to hear your liking the WE so far.
I don’t use lapping films very often but do use them some. I don’t try to do a full progression with films because I feel that with all the edge trailing strokes a wire edge is almost an inevitability. They are very fast and do produce a good looking edge but not a truly polished edge. For me when I use 2 or maybe 3 films behind a 1500 diamond stone I don’t use an over abundance of strokes so I don’t get a wire edge, at least not as much of one any way.
The couple of times I went thru the whole set of WE films, 9 thru .1, the finish got better until I got to the 1 and especially the .5 and then I was getting random scratches. Initially the blade got sharper but at a certain point the blade started to fall off. These were trials that I was doing and I used a ton of strokes. With maybe 20 strokes or so per film you can produce very sharp and good looking edges but they are anything but “scratch free”. If they are used to produce the sharpest edge possible and not to produce the best looking edge possible, they have there place. The films sharpen differently due to the softer delivery medium than the diamond plated stones that don’t give at all and the diamonds don’t move around the plate like on films and strops. The films are really somewhat between a stone and a strop in my opinion. They are kind of like a real hard strop to me an less like a stone but have some of the characteristics of both.
I feel that I need to point out that last year the lapping films were taking a fair share of the discussion on this forum, however the last 6 months or so not so much. I think the films have their limitations as does any other medium and if you want to know how you feel about them…first hand experience is the best determiner. I personally have not found a magic bullet for sharpening yet all though the stropping is pretty close. Pretty much everyone agrees on the diamond stones for the most part I think. Whether strops, films, ceramics, natural, chosera, shapton, …ect. ect. ect. There are a wide variety of opinions and results, keeping in mind that results are relative to the person. Once that same person finds something sharper, the scale moves for that person! My personal opinion of sharp has changed over the past year as I have gotten better, more knowledgeable and more options have become available to me. I remember being very impressed with the first knife I did! A knife like that no longer impresses me all though that 1000 grit lightly stropped edge with brand new stones has it’s place. I can do a very similar edge today stopping at 400 or 600 grit instead of going to 1000 grit just because of the difference of the stones when they break in.
I hope some of this rambling might help you in some way.
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I have the 6, 3, and 1.5 micron diamond films, but I don’t use them very often because I’m a bit of a penny pincher. Also, I have found that the performance difference between an edge finished at 1500 diamond and stropped versus an edge finished with the films and stropped is not worlds apart when it comes to the actual use of the blade (although those polished edges do look great). If I had unlimited money I would probably use them more often.
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Sk sharp
I recall the debate about the lapping film around 6 months or so as I recalled it was with WE brand at that time I did not own the machine as I was still doing it all by hand but using Nanolap films in the process. once I acquired the WE and igot t hestones broke in properly I decided to give the films a try and have been liking the results ( I felt it was a way to speed up the process of stropping )as have my customers but your point on the wire edge and just the film being a cross between a hard strop and diamond stone has the gears in my head going again.
The next knives I do will be this weekend. (Some beat up kershaw for a friend of my wife’s
I think I will take progression photo’s of them and see how things turn out.u have definitely made me rethink my process
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LV, you need to decide what your achieving. Do you want a sharp working edge with good durability for practical use. Or are you looking for the show-off edge to demonstrated to your friend audience how really sharp and shiny your edge is. There’s a balance in there to be had. too.
Marc
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Its customer dependant
If they want a sharp edge with workablity I normally just run up to 1500 grit and stop there
But u do get some who like to have a pretty edge
And it’s good for business as it bring extra coinage to the table
And I to am in that list it is nice to show off sometimes after all we are males lol
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LV you should have a very shiny specially sharpened show off knife to show perspective customers, and a working durable edge so they can see the difference, to understand your price scheme.
Marc
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I do I have several (different edges) to choose from
I just got the microscope so I can better understand what is going on with the edge. Sure beats the loupe
its a big difference going from hand to the WE system and for sure quicker .
Although new to the site I’m not new to sharpening been a hobby since I was around 15 now 52
Just been doing it as side money for the last year or 2 but now seems like I’ve been doing more and more hence getting the WE.
It does have limitations so it has its place but the majority of the client’s have edc’s and work related blades so I wanted to find a medium to help speed up process and add an option for perspective client’s. there has not been much discussion on lapping as of late so, I figured why not bring it up
Hope I’m not beating a dead horse lol
It helps that I just live for the most part around the corner from Nanolap where I get my film so cost are way down on that
And the film is produced in a multitude of grits
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Hey LV,
Yes the trials I ran with the lapping film were the WE films. I agree that the lapping films are quick and can serve a purpose. I like the edge with the lapping films they are just not noticeably sharper to me so I don’t want to encounter the extra expense. I just did a 5″ Kitchenaid chef knife to 1500 then 9,6,3 lapping film then 4/2 emulsion on leather and 1/.5 on kangaroo, sharpened at 15/17micro., the micro bevel was done with the micro ceramic stones after the films and before the strops. I didn’t try to make a scratchless edge but to the naked eye their are only a couple spots that someone might be able to pick out but they would have to be looking very closely with the naked eye. Under appr. 50x mag. I noticed a couple of interesting points. First the 9 micron lapping film had roughly the same sized scratches as the 1500 stone. Second the micro ceramic stone left a noticeably rougher finish than the 3 micron lapping film. The edge looks quite nice and the blade is very sharp. My goal is to even out the scratch pattern as uniformly as I can removing all scratches from the previous stone and when I’m able to do that the edge looks very polished when refined past 1000 then stropped.
I know that a lot of people have had a little trouble producing the edge they are looking for with strops alone and at least some of them wind up using films instead of strops. They do produce a fine edge and are very fast. In my mind I’m just not sure that the extra expense incurred using the films is justified for me at least but I don’t know that since I haven’t used them enough to say that for sure yet. I can say that the absolute sharpest edges I’ve done have not had lapping films as part of the progression. You can however make an edge sharp quickly that looks pretty good and without taking the time and effort to figure out the strops under all the different conditions that we might face. I love stropping but I spent a lot of hours finding out angles that worked for me, pressure and so forth. I probably need to spend some more time with the films so maybe I’ll have a little more informed opinion of them. The guys that like them seem to feel very strongly about the job they do for them. Let us know what you decide.
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