New WE owner (soon)

[Tim McKusker]

Hi guys. Well I pulled the trigger on a Pro Pack 2. I wasn’t planning on getting the full system until I found out about the generous Military discount that is offered by WE. So I went all in with the PP2 kit, case, and Chosera 2k/3k stone set. I look forward to learning on this system. I have an older Edge Pro system (messy) and never really loved the system due to the design and mess. I currently have a Sharpmaker, Norton waterstone set and DMT diamond plates. This system should keep me busy for quite some time. Will have to dig out some old kitchen knives to try out the new system, before I start on the real knives.

[Chad Headlee]

Welcome!

[tcmeyer]

Welcome aboard Jetech!!

You’re gonna love it. Start collecting data on how much to sell that other stuff for. I bought a new Sharpmaker (to replace my very old one) just before buying my WEPS. I even bought a pair of the coarse diamond triangles and a pair of their super-fine triangles, but I don’t think I’ve used it since.

My biggest problem is that I don’t have any knives I’d try sharpening on the triangle stones, ’cause they all have perfect WE bevels and why would I mess with them? Come to think of it, I do have one old knife I made with a blade from CVA, about 1978. I think I’ll go downstairs and wreck it.

[Mark76]

Hi Jetech! Welcome to the forum.

You’re gonna love your WEPS, I’m sure! When it arrives, and if you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Oh, and the Sharpmaker (I also had one before I got the WEPS)… you could try selling it on one of the knife forums.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Steve]

Welcome to the forum Jetech, I’m brand new to the WEPS, it’s ace, you will love it I’m sure…..keep us update on how you get on. 😉

Steve

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Welcome, try to remember to have fun! Sometimes we get so caught up? We forget to have fun? :mrgreen:B)

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Welcome, try to remember to have fun! Sometimes we get so caught up? We forget to have fun? 😆

[Tim McKusker]

Thanks for the welcome. First question. I am getting the Pro Pack 2 this week which comes with the 1.4/0.6 ceramics. I also ordered a Chosera 2k/3k stone. Most grit charts I can find don’t list the 1.4/0.6 stones but instead list the 1200/1600. Can anyone shed some light on where the Chosera will fit in progression from a diamond 1000?

Thanks.

[Josh]

Thanks for the welcome. First question. I am getting the Pro Pack 2 this week which comes with the 1.4/0.6 ceramics. I also ordered a Chosera 2k/3k stone. Most grit charts I can find don’t list the 1.4/0.6 stones but instead list the 1200/1600. Can anyone shed some light on where the Chosera will fit in progression from a diamond 1000?

Thanks.

You really probably need the 800’s to speed things up, but you can go to the 2k choseras directly from the 1k diamonds. It may take more time. Make sure to rub them together frequently to clean them and provide slurry which will improve the cutting action of the abrasives. Keep us posted!

[Tim McKusker]

Thanks for the welcome. First question. I am getting the Pro Pack 2 this week which comes with the 1.4/0.6 ceramics. I also ordered a Chosera 2k/3k stone. Most grit charts I can find don’t list the 1.4/0.6 stones but instead list the 1200/1600. Can anyone shed some light on where the Chosera will fit in progression from a diamond 1000?

Thanks.

You really probably need the 800’s to speed things up, but you can go to the 2k choseras directly from the 1k diamonds. It may take more time. Make sure to rub them together frequently to clean them and provide slurry which will improve the cutting action of the abrasives. Keep us posted![/quote]

So where in this progression do the ceramic stones come into play? After 3K Chosera and before stropping? Thanks for the reply Josh.

[Josh]

Thanks for the welcome. First question. I am getting the Pro Pack 2 this week which comes with the 1.4/0.6 ceramics. I also ordered a Chosera 2k/3k stone. Most grit charts I can find don’t list the 1.4/0.6 stones but instead list the 1200/1600. Can anyone shed some light on where the Chosera will fit in progression from a diamond 1000?

Thanks.

You really probably need the 800’s to speed things up, but you can go to the 2k choseras directly from the 1k diamonds. It may take more time. Make sure to rub them together frequently to clean them and provide slurry which will improve the cutting action of the abrasives. Keep us posted![/quote]

So where in this progression do the ceramic stones come into play? After 3K Chosera and before stropping? Thanks for the reply Josh.[/quote]

Well the ceramics you mentioned (1.4 and .6um) would actually go at the very end, even after the 10k choseras (since the 10k’s are rated around 2um). But the 1200/1600 would be a nice “in between” between the 1k and the 2k. Otherwise you can actually use some automotive sandpaper to help remove scratches.

[Mark76]

If the 1.4 and 0,6 micron stones actually were 1.4 and 0.6 micron, I’d agree with you Josh. But I find in practice that they’re more like the 1200/1600 stones. The 1.4 mu stones seem a bit coarser than the 1200 stones and the 0.6 mu stones a bit (much) finer than the 1600 stones. So, all other things being equal, I agree that according to the grit listing, the 0.6 mu stones should go after the 10K Choseras, but not the 1.4 mu stones.

However, all other thing are not equal :-). The Choseras are waterstones that break down relatively quickly. This gives them a great polishing action the ceramic stones don’t have.

I myself have the 5K and 10K Choseras. And a favourite progression of mine if I want a mirror finish on a knife is diamond stones -> 1200/1600 ceramic stones -> 5K Chosera -> 10K Chosera. If I want to do crazy I can then strop with a really fine compound, but it is necessary by no means.

As for the 3K Choseras, according to the grit chart they fit in somewhere between the 1200 and 1600 ceramics (and imho also between the 1.4 and 0.6 mu ceramics). I think you have many ways in which you can use these 3K stones, Jetech:

• Use them directly after the diamond stones and then strop (or finish)
• Use the diamond stones, then the 1.4 mu stones, then the 3K Choseras. This will leave a similar finish as the previous bullet, but it will save you on the expensive waterstones
• Use either of these progressions and then go to the 0.4 mu stones. And then strop (or don’t).

I think the last progression will leave the finest finish, but I’m not sure, since I don’t have the 3K Choseras. Just experiment a little and see whether the 0.4 mu stones further refine the edge after the Choseras.

Success! And please let us know what your experiences are. I’m really interested!

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[tcmeyer]

I agree that the brown ceramic said to be 1.4 micron acts much coarser, probably closer to the 1200 than the 14,500 that a true 1.4 micron would be.

For what it’s worth, my grit charts from AdvancedAbrasives.com say the following:

15 micron is equivalent to 1200 mesh
12 micron is equivalent to 1600 mesh
9 micron is equivalent to 1800
6 micron is equivalent to 3000
5 micron is equivalent to 4000
3 micron is equivalent to 8000
1.5 micron is equivalent to 13000
1 micron is equivalent to 15000
.5 micron is equivalent to 50000
.3 micron is equivalent to 68000
.1 micron is equivalent to 203000

Generally, you can divide the micron mesh size into 20,300 to give you the equivalent grit.

Wicked Edge’s numbers are a little different and are probably empirical. Nobody’s been able to measure the grit size for ceramics because they are all made from the same grit. The coarseness/fineness is probably a function of how they bake it (pressure/time/temp). To give you an equivalent grit size, they just compare the scratch patterns and eyeball them. “Hey, this looks pretty close to a 5 micron diamond scratch pattern!”

One of the guys on the Spyderco forum say that their “fine” is 7 to 9 micron or 2000 to 3000 grit
Their “Ultra-fine” is 3 to 4 micron or 4000 to 6000 grit. Neither of these comes close to 1.4/.6 micron. I have some of their Ultra-fine stones and they are apparently the same as WE’s micro-fine white.

[Josh]

If the 1.4 and 0,6 micron stones actually were 1.4 and 0.6 micron, I’d agree with you Josh. But I find in practice that they’re more like the 1200/1600 stones. The 1.4 mu stones seem a bit coarser than the 1200 stones and the 0.6 mu stones a bit (much) finer than the 1600 stones. So, all other things being equal, I agree that according to the grit listing, the 0.6 mu stones should go after the 10K Choseras, but not the 1.4 mu stones.

However, all other thing are not equal :-). The Choseras are waterstones that break down relatively quickly. This gives them a great polishing action the ceramic stones don’t have.

I myself have the 5K and 10K Choseras. And a favourite progression of mine if I want a mirror finish on a knife is diamond stones -> 1200/1600 ceramic stones -> 5K Chosera -> 10K Chosera. If I want to do crazy I can then strop with a really fine compound, but it is necessary by no means.

As for the 3K Choseras, according to the grit chart they fit in somewhere between the 1200 and 1600 ceramics (and imho also between the 1.4 and 0.6 mu ceramics). I think you have many ways in which you can use these 3K stones, Jetech:

• Use them directly after the diamond stones and then strop (or finish)
• Use the diamond stones, then the 1.4 mu stones, then the 3K Choseras. This will leave a similar finish as the previous bullet, but it will save you on the expensive waterstones
• Use either of these progressions and then go to the 0.4 mu stones. And then strop (or don’t).

I think the last progression will leave the finest finish, but I’m not sure, since I don’t have the 3K Choseras. Just experiment a little and see whether the 0.4 mu stones further refine the edge after the Choseras.

Success! And please let us know what your experiences are. I’m really interested!

Well I guess I stand corrected! lol I don’t have either sets of the ceramics but just rather stick to my Choseras, so I don’t have much experience in this arena!

This thread may be useful

It seems as if lapping them may change the courseness of the stones themselves.

Also, I remember reading somewhere about a year ago where clay measured the scratch pattern on the micro-fines and they seemed to match up w/ the factory specs of 1.4 and .6…? It must be different in reality, however, as so many people have reported!

[Mark76]

Nobody’s been able to measure the grit size for ceramics because they are all made from the same grit. The coarseness/fineness is probably a function of how they bake it (pressure/time/temp). To give you an equivalent grit size, they just compare the scratch patterns and eyeball them. “Hey, this looks pretty close to a 5 micron diamond scratch pattern!”

One of the guys on the Spyderco forum say that their “fine” is 7 to 9 micron or 2000 to 3000 grit
Their “Ultra-fine” is 3 to 4 micron or 4000 to 6000 grit. Neither of these comes close to 1.4/.6 micron. I have some of their Ultra-fine stones and they are apparently the same as WE’s micro-fine white.

I did a blog post on this. In case you’re interested: http://moleculepolishing.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/the-mystery-of-the-spyderco-and-the-wicked-edge-ceramic-stones/

Also, I remember reading somewhere about a year ago where clay measured the scratch pattern on the micro-fines and they seemed to match up w/ the factory specs of 1.4 and .6…? It must be different in reality, however, as so many people have reported!

I don’t remember a post by Clay you write about. I do remember threads on this topic, however, including the one you refer to. And I did a blog post on it. Yes, I did a lot of blog posts 😉 . It’s here: http://moleculepolishing.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/more-on-the-wicked-edge-micro-fine-ceramic-stones/ . And photos of scratch patterns can be seen here: http://moleculepolishing.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/wicked-edge-micro-fine-ceramic-stones/ . Beware of my conclusion, which in hindsight I think is erroneous. (Hence my other post on the micro fine ceramic stones.)

The final verdict on these stones is, as far as I’m concerned, still open. And, as Clay has shown, will probably remain open, since the fineness/coarseness of these stones can be changed by lapping them.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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