Micro Fine ceramic stones: my first impressions

[Mark76]

Hi all,

I recently obtained the new Micro Fine ceramic stones and finally had some time to use them. I wrote a blog post about them. You can read it here.

A brief peek ahead: I had a fine shave.

If there are other people who have these stones: I’m also really curious about your experiences!

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Jende Industries]

Nice writeup Mark!

Time to pass the knife around 😉 Also, we need some shaving video from you soon if that is going to be your testing criteria!

[Ken Buzbee]

Nice. Just got mine too. Used them once so far. Best edge yet!

Did you lap yours Mark? I didn’t and they seemed fine.

Ken

(BTW – I have the same knife, it’s excellent!)

[Mark76]

Yes, I lapped my Micro Fine ceramics. I don’t know whether it was really necessary. But Clay recommended us to do so and I saw some scratches on the blade when I hadn’t lapped them yet, so I thought I’d better be sure than sorry.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Ken Buzbee]

Yes, I lapped my Micro Fine ceramics. I don’t know whether it was really necessary. But Clay recommended us to do so and I saw some scratches on the blade when I hadn’t lapped them yet, so I thought I’d better be sure than sorry.

Kinda the same place I was. I decided to try them for a bit “stock” to get a feel for them. I figured I could always lap them later. I did take the corners off my 1200/1800s to chamfer them a bit to be more like the micro fine (I thought that was a better design) Caused a small chip on one corner, but nothing that will impact their function.

Ken

[Jamie Baldwin]

I received my micro ceramics last week. After using them on a few knives, I was pleased with the results until I lapped them last night and used them on a knife this morning. MUCH better results to say the least.
I started at the 100/200 and progressed up through the 800/100, rotating the ceramics after about 8 to 10 strokes. I used a bit of dish soap on a sponge to wipe off the stones and ceramics to clean out the debris on the each. I couldn’t be more pleased with the mirror edges after lapping the ceramics.
Unrelated to this, I’m having problems with cleaning and loading diamond paste on my strops.
I cleaned them really well, smoothed them and loaded them. When I use them, I am getting residue left on the edges and them seem a little sticky or tacky. Any thoughts on this??

[wickededge]

My experience with the strops is that the tackier the better. I get the best results when my strops are really grabbing the metal.

I received my micro ceramics last week. After using them on a few knives, I was pleased with the results until I lapped them last night and used them on a knife this morning. MUCH better results to say the least.
I started at the 100/200 and progressed up through the 800/100, rotating the ceramics after about 8 to 10 strokes. I used a bit of dish soap on a sponge to wipe off the stones and ceramics to clean out the debris on the each. I couldn’t be more pleased with the mirror edges after lapping the ceramics.
Unrelated to this, I’m having problems with cleaning and loading diamond paste on my strops.
I cleaned them really well, smoothed them and loaded them. When I use them, I am getting residue left on the edges and them seem a little sticky or tacky. Any thoughts on this??

-Clay

[Joyal Taylor]

I couldn’t be more pleased with the mirror edges after lapping the ceramics.

I had a different result as far as mirror edges. I sharpened a Kershaw Blur from 100 diamond thru 1600 ceramics. Then I switched to 5,000/10,000 Choseras before going on to the 1.4/0.6 micro ceramics. The mirror edge after the 10,000 Choseras was great, to the naked eye. But after the micro ceramics, the mirror edge had changed – inconsistent polish thorughout the edge that just didn’t look right. Has anyone else noticed this?

However, at 400x magnification, the edges seemed about the same.

I couldn’t get the lightening right with regular photos showing the mirror edge difference but I did take some 400x photos of both 10,000 Chosera and 0.6 micro ceramic edges.

After 10,000 Choseras:

And here are two more photos of the same blade after the 0.6 micro ceramics (different lightening):

This is just one knife so I’ll try some more after lapping the micro ceramics.

[Mark76]

I had a different result as far as mirror edges. I sharpened a Kershaw Blur from 100 diamond thru 1600 ceramics. Then I switched to 5,000/10,000 Choseras before going on to the 1.4/0.6 micro ceramics. The mirror edge after the 10,000 Choseras was great, to the naked eye. But after the micro ceramics, the mirror edge had changed – inconsistent polish thorughout the edge that just didn’t look right. Has anyone else noticed this?

Not quite the same experience. But tonight I sharpened another knife, finishing with the micro fine ceramics and again I noticed some scratches similar to the ones in the first photograph of the edge in my blog post. Don’t know exactly why.

Clay, can you tell us why you think lapping the stones would be a good idea?

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[wickededge]

For two reasons – 1) I had noticed that one of the brown stones had a rougher surface than the other 2) I’d read somewhere that the only difference between the Spyderco Fine and Extra Fine stones was how they were finished i.e. they were the same stone but one that was lapped to a finer surface which led me to think it would be worth a try since the same company (Coorstek) that is making our stones makes the stones for Spyderco. I’ll try to dig up the post I read for reference later. I contacted my rep at Coorstek to ask about it but he didn’t know anything and is supposed to get back to me.

I had a different result as far as mirror edges. I sharpened a Kershaw Blur from 100 diamond thru 1600 ceramics. Then I switched to 5,000/10,000 Choseras before going on to the 1.4/0.6 micro ceramics. The mirror edge after the 10,000 Choseras was great, to the naked eye. But after the micro ceramics, the mirror edge had changed – inconsistent polish thorughout the edge that just didn’t look right. Has anyone else noticed this?

Not quite the same experience. But tonight I sharpened another knife, finishing with the micro fine ceramics and again I noticed some scratches similar to the ones in the first photograph of the edge in my blog post. Don’t know exactly why.

Clay, can you tell us why you think lapping the stones would be a good idea?[/quote]

-Clay

[wickededge]

The quote about the F and UF Spyderco stones comes from Cliff Stamp on his blog:

Spyderco has always been clear that the only difference between the F and UF is the lapping finish, they are the same abrasive one is just finished finer than the other.A bit of perspective on the razor community, while they are correct, they are extremely precise and the main guage they use is the sensitivity of the skin in response to shaving as the guage of sharpness.

-Clay

[Jamie Baldwin]

When I first used the micro fine ceramics (esp. the “brown” stone) , I did notice a different scratch pattern on the edge, however, after lapping them, the scratch patterns appear to be much more refined and consistant although I am not looking at them under 200x. Just my 2 cents but I’m curious to see other results.

[cbwx34]

The quote about the F and UF Spyderco stones comes from Cliff Stamp on his blog:

Spyderco has always been clear that the only difference between the F and UF is the lapping finish, they are the same abrasive one is just finished finer than the other.A bit of perspective on the razor community, while they are correct, they are extremely precise and the main guage they use is the sensitivity of the skin in response to shaving as the guage of sharpness.

[/quote]

Here’s a bit more info you might find interesting from Sal (Spyderco’s president):

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All of the ceramics use the same micron size (15-25). the different grits are created by different carriers, different firing techniques and diamond surface grinding.

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We’ve spent a great deal of time trying to determine grits for our stones. The manufacturer has also worked with us, to no avail. A guess seems to be best.

Most abrasives are measured by the grit size used in the matrix. Our ceramic doesn ‘t work that way. Grit size is constant.

We’ve tried to compare scratch patterns as Cliff mentioned and this is probably the closest, but nothing that we can say “This is blah blah”. Then the Japanese water stones jump into the equation and suddenly there is whole new set of numbers.

So where we end up is:

Our diamonds are a 400 mesh (measureable). (600 on the Duckfoot)

Our gray stone is “medium”. (Same material as fine but different carriers and heat treat).

Our fine stone is fine.

Our extra fine is a surface ground fine.

———————————————————————-

Our Ultra fine stone took many years to develop and few know about them. I was convinced enough with the stone’s potential that we finally were able to make a 3″ X 8″ version that is not much more than a quarter inch thck. Two sides, flat and fine.

It took five years for our R&D teram to finally produce this stone. The challenges kept cropping up and needed to be overcome. Technology in the area of ceramic stones has improved and we can now make stone shapes before not possile.

We have the new UF 3X8, a 2″ X 4″ fine slipstone with 1/2″ down to 1/8″. And we also have a ceramic version of the byrd duckfoot, fine grit. A true “Golden stone”. The downside is the high cost.

50,000 years from now when the Pyramids have crumbled and humans are but a memory, Spyderco ceramic stones will be seen sticking out of the earth, ready to work.

————————————————————-
Source: http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?31188-Ceramic-benchstones-compared-to-DMT-extra-fine

[wickededge]

Thanks for posting CBW, that’s awesome info.

-Clay

[Mark76]

With all of this info on the Spyderco stones, I wonder whether the Micro Fine ceramics are the same material as the Spyderco fine/ultra fine stones? Or are they different stones that happen to be made by the same manufacturer?

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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