Micro-chipping on the edge – Causes and Remedies?

[Coady Buckley]

Hi there guys,

I’ve had the WE for a while now and have been getting great results, particularly as the stones start to break in a bit and as I get the ‘feel’ for the overall relationship between me, the WE, and the blade edge.

Just a quick “hit tip” to Clay, here, the WE is for a range a reasons that I will list in a separate post simply a great, great system. Thanks!

Anyway, to my problem: I’ve noticed that while I’m getting extremely sharp edges that on almost everything I’ve sharpened I’m getting very fine micro-chips all along the edge. I have not been going for super mirror polished edges, but up to the 1200/1600 ceramics and then light stropping.

I haven’t tackled any super steels, so all this relates to relativing soft (but tried and true) steels such as VG10, 12C27, etc.

Does anyone have any experience of this and any advice…?

Thanks, and all the best.

-flugzeit

[tcmeyer]

I had experienced the same thing early in my learning curve. I eventually figured out that the edge damage was happening with the coarser stones. In particular, I found that Chicago Cutlery stainless steel would “chip” easily with the 100 and 200 grit stones, but it happened with other steels too. Of course, a knife edge with chips is a dull edge if you’re an obsessive Wicked Edge user. The only answer is to stone out the chips with the next grit in progression. In my case, it means quite a bit more work with the 400 grit stones. As a result, I only use the 100/200 stones where there’s a lot of damage to be repaired. And of course, this also means that I use the 400 grit stones more than any other. A few weeks ago, I had to buy a replacement set.

Oh, and don’t waste your time trying to remove 200-grit chips with an 800-grit stone. Ain’t gonna happen.

I’m sure that applying too much pressure contributed to my problem, but since I started to keep the 100/200’s out of my rotation, I don’t have chip problems.

[Mark76]

He Flugzeit (is that German?), welcome to the forum! Enjoy your WEPS!

Can you tell us a little more about what you were doing when you got the chips? And which knives/steels?

There are steels that chip very easily, like many no-name steels on cheap knives and also badly hardened VG-10. But it surprises me you also mention 12C27.

From a distance, my first recommendation to prevent chipping would be, like tcmeyer’s advice, not to use too much pressure. And don’t sharpen at too obtuse an angle. If the steel is really chippy, it might be good advice not to use the 100/200 grit stones, but if you sharpen your knives at a “normal” angle, above 20 degrees per side, and sharpen a reasonably tough steel, like 12C27, you shouldn’t get any chips.

In fact I sharpen my 12C27 pocket knives and kitchen knives usually at 15 degrees per side and use the 100 grit stones on them without any problem.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Coady Buckley]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for responding so quickly. Let me get the information together (steels, steps taken, grits, etc.) and then I’ll be able to provide more detail.

Thanks. 🙂

-flugzeit

[Lukas Pop]

Hi flugzeit, tcmeyer and mark76 made some good points. I recommend buying something like this http://www.dx.com/p/illuminated-pocket-60x-to-100x-zoom-microscope-1328#.U66UOfl_s2Y and check the edge after every set of stones. You will see what happens during sharpening.

[Coady Buckley]

Thanks for the responses, so far. I’ve gone back over my records and I’ve worked on the following steel types (plus a few others):
– VG10 (Spyderco Anso Rock Lobster)
– 12C27 (numerous, French regional)
– Opinel No. Stainless (Steel type?)
– X100CrMo13 (various kitchen knives)
…so all pretty workable steels, and generally not prone to chipping.

None of these knives are running super fine profiles… basically a back bevel (15-18) and then a micro bevel (20).

I’ve checked with a jewellers loupe and virtually every one has very, very fine micro-chipping on the final bevel.

I didn’t want to give my own thoughts on what is happening in the original post so as not to bias the response… but a number of the comments confirm what I think I’m doing. From the details above I think most of you guys will confirm that the problem is not the blade profiles or the steels… but the guy wielding the paddles… 😉

My feeling is that:
– I’m using too much pressure.
– All my stones are still pretty new (i.e. I would not say they’re broken in).
– Using too much pressure with new stones (which seem to have a capacity to occasionally leave some deep scratches until they break in).
– Possibly starting out on too low a grit (only two knives required re-profiling, the others where all straight forward sharpening).
– Possibly over working the lower grits and under working on the finer grits.
– Possibly not cleaning the blade off regularly enough when working (particularly at the lower grits).

Any further comments or advice would be greatly appreciated, and my sincere thanks to those who have commented so far. Its a great community!

…and yes “flugzeit” is German, its a handle I’ve had for a long time across a range of different forums. Actually I’m an Aussie but I live in Germany

[Mikedoh]

The thread on destressing an edge may provide some more grist for the mill. Especially for the next sharpening of the chipped edges.

https://www.wickededgeusa.com/forum/11-thoughts-theories-science-related-to-sharpening/12536-interesting-video-do-you-destress-your-edge?limitstart=0&start=40

[Geocyclist]

Hey Flugzeit, welcome to the forum.

Good advice here. Go with lower pressure. When I “think” I am done with a grit, I go 10-20 strokes more per side focusing 100% on using the lightest pressure possible.

I have found some steels just don’t handle 15 degrees per side. I haven’t see micro chipping so much as poor edge retention.

When I first used my 50 and 80 grit diamonds they definitely were very aggressive. I rarely use them now, and if I do I really work out the chips/scratches with the 100 and 200’s.

[Coady Buckley]

When I first used my 50 and 80 grit diamonds they definitely were very aggressive. I rarely use them now, and if I do I really work out the chips/scratches with the 100 and 200’s.

Thanks for the advice. I actually have the 50/80 grit stones and haven’t even taken them out of the plastic. I’m starting to wonder what, exactly, I would dare to attack with them.

Does anyone have a point of view on breaking in the stones (particularly the coarser grits, as well as ceramics) by working them against each other before using them on an edge? Its just that I’ve noticed the stones are particularly aggressive while still relatively new (regardless of it looking like I have been using too much pressure, anyway).

Thanks, also, for the other comments and the link…! 🙂

Cheers,
-flugzeit

[cbwx34]

I actually have the 50/80 grit stones and haven’t even taken them out of the plastic. I’m starting to wonder what, exactly, I would dare to attack with them.

Going from this…

to this…

(Thread)
… is one use. 🙂

Does anyone have a point of view on breaking in the stones (particularly the coarser grits, as well as ceramics) by working them against each other before using them on an edge? Its just that I’ve noticed the stones are particularly aggressive while still relatively new (regardless of it looking like I have been using too much pressure, anyway).

I wouldn’t rub the diamonds together… you can rub the ceramics together a little bit (this wil break the “crust” on top and should smooth them out). The diamonds I would just find a few “practice” knives to sharpen… rubbing them together can potentially damage them.

[Daniel maloon]

Old rusty garden tools work well

[JS]

Maybe a month late, but have you taken notice of your grip on the stones? I’d think maybe a grip higher on the stones might lead to more pressure towards the apex and might contribute to chipping. I’ve found that my thumbs in the second indentation from the top has yielded the best edges and most consistency. Just my 2 cents. And of course, pressure seems to always be the key when sharpening.

[Coady Buckley]

Maybe a month late, but have you taken notice of your grip on the stones? I’d think maybe a grip higher on the stones might lead to more pressure towards the apex and might contribute to chipping. I’ve found that my thumbs in the second indentation from the top has yielded the best edges and most consistency. Just my 2 cents. And of course, pressure seems to always be the key when sharpening.

To be honest, I think you’re on to something here. I have been tending to hold the stones quite high up and exerting pressure at the very top of the stone with my index finger (with the idea that I would take out any play between rod and stones). However, thinking about it now I can see your point, that this technique/grip might be putting to much pressure on the very apex. Your other point is also well made: use lighter pressure! 🙂

Thanks for the response.

-flugzeit

[JS]

Maybe a month late, but have you taken notice of your grip on the stones? I’d think maybe a grip higher on the stones might lead to more pressure towards the apex and might contribute to chipping. I’ve found that my thumbs in the second indentation from the top has yielded the best edges and most consistency. Just my 2 cents. And of course, pressure seems to always be the key when sharpening.

To be honest, I think you’re on to something here. I have been tending to hold the stones quite high up and exerting pressure at the very top of the stone with my index finger (with the idea that I would take out any play between rod and stones). However, thinking about it now I can see your point, that this technique/grip might be putting to much pressure on the very apex. Your other point is also well made: use lighter pressure! 🙂

Thanks for the response.

-flugzeit[/quote]

No problem, always here to help!

[Author]

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