Help w/ Primary ‘n Secondary Bevel Sharpening

[Ryan]

Okay, I’m fairly new to this whole sharpening concept and fairly new to the WEP. I have a knife that has been recommended by several to sharpen the primary bevel at 17 degrees then put a secondary bevel at 20. I have no idea how to do this without potentially messing things up. Any guidance how to do this on the WEPs is greatly appreciate.

Ryan

[Josh]

Simply sharpen at 17dps fully, then put a micro bevel on at 20dps with very light passes!

[Ryan]

Simply sharpen at 17dps fully, then put a micro bevel on at 20dps with very light passes!

That’s it? Wow, okay thanks Josh. I’m assuming then the micro bevel is created with light passes from higher grit stones? Perhaps at 600 or 800 and then up? Am I tracking correctly?

[Mikedoh]

For the micro bevel, you can finish with the highest grit stone you used for your 17 degree bevel, or you can try a higher grit stone. Not many passes are needed to put on a micro bevel, just a few. No progression is needed. A micro bevel is not really decrenable to the eye. Not that you couldn’t put a different bevel on, using a progression, or what ever you wanted to do. But I don’t believe that is considered “micro”.

I’d suggest just trying a few light strokes at 1k grit (or higher) and see how you like it. If you don’t, you can always go coarser, or experiment more .

[Ryan]

Thanks for the very descriptive explanation! This seriously helps. Now I’m going to give it a try.

Ryan

[Mikedoh]

Let us know your thoughts on your final edge or edges.

[Mark76]

These tips (a few degrees difference between the primary and secondary bevel) work very well for thicker knives. If your knife is thin (like a Japanese kitchen knife) you may want to try a a very low angle (like 15 degrees or even lower) for the main bevel and a much higher (like 25-30 degrees) for the microbevel.

This is a tip from Jon at JCK and results in a knife that still cuts like a dream without the stability/chipping issues a very low angle may give.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Ryan]

So on thicker knives what would you suggest then for the primary/secondary a 17/20? Or 20/25?

[Josh]

Depends on what you are wanting to use it for, but generally I do a 15/20 bevel. Chippers or pry vars I would go thicker though.

[Mark76]

So on thicker knives what would you suggest then for the primary/secondary a 17/20? Or 20/25?

Both sound good. If it’s good steel, I’d probably opt for 17/20.

Just experiment a little and see what you like best.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Zamfir]

So on thicker knives what would you suggest then for the primary/secondary a 17/20? Or 20/25?

Both sound good. If it’s good steel, I’d probably opt for 17/20.

Just experiment a little and see what you like best.[/quote]

So, what would you consider good steel vs not good steel?

I am going to be sharpening some friends knives and I want to help with the knife data base. so I understand that s30v is a good steel..I think.. but is the steel on a classic buck folder which is 440 considered good steel?
Say..A Victorinox swiss army knife?
a Forschner 40520 chef knife?
a Wusthof dreizak Classic x50 Cr Mo V15 chef knife?

I was doing my EDC random leek s30v with 17 bevel and I think I will now add a 19 or 20 micro bevel? That sound right?

Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to get a “feel” for what angles to use when I sharpen someone elses knife since they can not play with angles and quickly resharpen like I can.

I am sure I will do some kitchen knives but mostly hunting and EDC.

[Mark76]

Well, put simply you want the steel to be able to hold these angles. A soft steel might roll and a hard steel might break out or chip. Preventing this is one of the reasons to put a microbevel on it.

But, again very generally put, many hard steels with a good heat treatment can hold pretty acute angles. How you know? Well, basically by trying out. If a steel doesn’t hold a particular angle, increase the angle or put a microbevel on it.

German kitchen knives (Wusthof, Forschner) are usually pretty soft. I often sharp German kitchen knives at around 20 dps; some people go even a few degrees higher. The S30V of your Leek is probably harder. The S30V on some of my pocket knives can withstand 15 dps.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Mark76]

And great timing by Clifford Stamp… http://www.wickededgeusa.com/forum/22-steel/13161-edge-retention-as-a-function-of-edge-angle-steel

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Zamfir]

Yea that is great timing!

So is there currently a chart or some general guidelines regarding primary and secondary bevels I could use for now?

BTW..I tried a secondary bevel on a cold steel spike. It did not work out so well. I made the first bevel at 20 up to the 1000 diamond. Then changed it up to 22 and worked the 5 and 3.5u strops. It would push cut paper and shave. Then I took the 1000 diamond stones and very lightly put a micro bevel at the 22 it was set at. It would not shave or push cut paper anymore. I hit it again with the strops at the same 22 angle again and left it there. So..my first try at a micro bevel failed. Sooo..what did I do wrong?

side note, I learned a lot about pressure and how much each stone can take off this weekend by sharpening a sog tomahawk. It has a huge thinning angle that I messed with (not intending to apex it at all..that would be a ton of metal. But more to get a feel for the stones and looking at the marks under a 30x loupe. I finally convinced myself I do not have to apply pressure! I also did this to help aid in breaking in my stones. They definitely feel way different now than on the first 5 knives I did. I made sure to use the whole surface of the stones, flipping them over a few times since I was working only the top 3/4 mostly. I worked for hrs on this. The stones are nice and even now and have a very uniform grit to them. I washed them down after this session and you can really feel the subtleties of the stones under water. I played with strokes from the bottom up and from the top down and from the tip forward and the back toward the tip. Looking at scratches and such each time. Very interesting learning session for me. After all of this is when I tackled the “spike”. I was happy with the result until I tried the micro bevel 🙁

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