Hello From S.E. Wisconsin
- This topic has 25 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 02/01/2018 at 3:36 am by
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Hello there everybody. My name is Dale. Before I blather on about myself with an intro, I’d like to make a few comments. I’ve been scouring these forums for a few days now and I have noticed:
The level of politeness is AWESOME.
There are some very passionate people here that are willing to share their knowledge.
Love that Clay often visits these forums.
Internet forums are a great place to exchange ideas and knowledge. One or two bad apples just make it a bad place to visit. Again one of the first things I noticed was the atmosphere here. Good job on the moderators and members.
Who’s Dale?
I currently work in a mainframe development and support department for a very large bank. That’s right. Mainframe. No PC knowledge at all! My nephews work in more modern applications and love to tease me. I just tell them “My 401k, IRAs, and pension will be ready for me in just a few short years. So mainframe programming, while not too exciting, pays the bills”.
Other interests? Small engine repair, light carpentry, electric, plumbing, hunting, fishing. Love volunteer work and God.
Why did I buy a WE system? I had been happy with my Lansky set. (Is it OK to mention other systems by name?) But it seemed a little clumsy to me. The big factor is I have a friend that is a knife maker, and is in the process of making a pair of custom fit father son hunting knives for my son and I. Mine will be made from S60V, and my son’s will be a similar knife steel. He offers lifetime sharpening of any of his knives, and of course he do ours with a smile. But you know what? I want to do my own. He recommended the WE.
So far I’ve sharpened two knives. Holy Smokes is all I can say. No comparison to the Lansky, but you all know that.
I love reading the forum topics about MODS to the WE. I get I should protect the ball joints. I like the mod I saw with a block of foam where you rest your stones/rods on the granite when not using them. I’m sure as I read more, I will find other mods that will be useful to me. And right, someday I may be able to offer up suggestions or answers.
So that’s all I got for now. Back to searching the forums!
Thanks much.
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Good to hear about your model and your early experiences. I too started with the Pro Pack II, 4 or 5 years ago. I experienced the same issues you related.
I too experienced issues with the “L” brackets becoming loose. I doubled up on the black plastic knurled knob thumb screws on the “L” brackets, (front and back). I also changed out rod angle micro-angle adjustment locking screws with double, (front and back), nylon knurled knob plastic screws. Now my angle is kept securely locked and the nylon doesn’t cause damage to the micro-adjustment screw threads. The double pressure really holds quite well with this dual direction tightening and doesn’t require you to “crank the heck out of the screws”. You may be able to find larger knurl knob screws for your large fingers. I was amazed by the variety of products a Google search found.
I have also doubled up the micro-adjustment locking screws with nylon knurled knobs on my first edition Gen 3 Pro. (This picture is at the bottom). Other members have tackled this issue with other methods they found just as effective for them.
Besides going slow, your stones results will improve as they become more broken in.
Here’s a link to help with your stropping experience, I posted earlier on this Forum. Just left click the blue line.
The strop diamond emulsions do seem to me to be a easier stropping abrasive to use then the stropping paste and gives really good results. The paste works OK so use it up. A spritz of rubbing alcohol on the strops embedded with the paste type strop compound does help with the dryness. Next time you’ll buy the spray diamond emulsion strop compound .
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)Dale, I’d wave to you as you went by, but I’m about 8 miles west of 43. If you need help with mods, I got ’em.
If anybody’s wondering, Trivers is a Wisconsin contraction equivalent to Norlins. Among those less well-spoken it might also be referred to as Twivers.
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Thanks sksharp!
Funny you should call it the fray. I have bee searching all over the forums, and I fee like a cat chasing the laser dot on the floor. Too much good stuff for me to focus and stay on task.
I’ve been trying to see if I can get a more mirror edge. My pro pack two comes with the 800-1000 diamond stones, then the ceramic stones labelled as ‘coarse’ and ‘fine’. When I go to the products page here it makes me think my ceramic stones might be 1200 & 1600.
After using the ‘coarse’ and ‘fine’ ceramic stones, my blades are shiny, but even to the naked eye they are scratched. I don’t think buying 1500 grit diamond will do me any good (I could be wrong) because it seems to me that stone would land me right between ceramic ‘coarse’ and ‘fine.
Can I achieve a polished mirror edge with what I have? do I just have t really lighten up and run like 50 light strokes with 800, then 1000 diamond, then say 50 strokes with the coarse and fine ceramic? maybe I am just not patient enough yet?
Dale
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Dale your stones and the results they’re able to give you will improve as they become more broken in. There is also the component of patience and good technique. The mirror polished edge will follow. More strokes with proper technique will always yield better results then less strokes. I really believe you can’t do too many strokes. I do think you have something to gain in your outcome if you ad the 1500 grit stone. It is a good finish to the diamond stone progression.
There is more to it then just grit or particle size when considering which abrasive medium you use and the order to use them. The ceramics do impart a different kind of scratch pattern then the diamond stones. Every different medium, Diamond stones, Diamond lapping films, Ceramics, Whetstones and strops each produce a different scratch pattern, consistency and depth. It’s the combination and order of use and technique that adds up to produce the results your seeking. The ceramic stones do have a long break in period too, before they’ll give they’re best results.
First I can say you’re on your way. Keep at it. As your stones wear in more and improve and as your get through this learning curve and gain experience and refine your technique your results will come around. You’ll feel the difference through the stone feed back and you’ll be able hear the difference by the sound made as your stones run across your bevel as the surface becomes smoother and more refined.
Light even consistent pressure is key. Allow the stone’s abrasives to do the work. Concentrate on finger placement, finger pressure and maintaining flat even constant contact against the bevel. Consistency is key across the entire length of the knife. You can get that mirror polish with what you have. Take your time and do a lot of strokes. I never was a stroke number counter. I just tried to keep it even number from side to side. As I gained experience I was able to see where I needed to do more work to even out the visual results.
If your only examining your results with your naked eye, a magnifying tool like a lighted loupe or USB Microscope is hard to beat.
Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)Hi Dale,
I don’t own the ceramic stones so I’m only parroting information gleaned from time on the forum, but I don’t believe that the ceramic stones will ever give a mirrored finish on their own. Many people have used the ceramics as the last stones in a progression to get a mirrored edge by simply following up with several grits of strops. Stropping seems to be the key ingredient to getting an edge that has no visible scratches to the naked eye. That said, the lapping films will definitely give you a highly polished and mirrored edge, but you’ll probably still see scratches if you examine the edge from a variety of angles. The quickest way to achieve a mirrored edge with no visible scratches is to use the lapping films and then lots of stropping. Please keep in mind that I’ve never been someone to chase the mirrored edge so others with more experience in that endeavor may disagree with what I have written here.
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Dale: The ceramics too will improve with use, but I doubt that they’ll give you a real, scratch-free finish, which is why so many have gone to strops and film-on-glass platens. WE shows the 1200/1600 stones as an aid in achieving a mirror finish, but by using them as a step between the 1000-grit diamonds and strops. They list the micro-fines as being capable on their own, but I wonder if they meant “on their own.” I’d expect them to take a bit longer to fully break them in.
As I recall, , my micro-fine ceramics are labeled “Coarse” and “Fine”, but the new version is shown here on the “Stones” section as 1.4 micron and 0.6 micron. The micro-fines are different colors. Without pulling mine out of storage, I think mine are beige and brown. The dark brown is the coarser of the two grits. Even my very old Super-Fine ceramics are labeled as 1200 and 1600, so it’s pretty clear that yours are the micro-fine version, especially if one side is brown.
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My micro ceramics are labeled with 1.4/.6, the 1200/1600’s are labeled course and fine. The ceramics will polish after they break in however, it may take 20 or 30 knives before you really start to see what they are capable of. The 1200/1600 I have probably have about 30 to 40 knives on them and they are still improving, the micro’s start yielding results a little quicker but break in slower than the diamonds do. The ceramic stones are not very good at removing scratches as they remove metal VERY slowly. I actually use the 1500 diamond stone and then go to the 1200/1600 and/or the micro’s. The more scratches you can remove before you use the ceramics the better they work. I use my ceramics quite a bit for putting a micro bevel on an edge, this allows me to refine the micro a little more due to the slow metal removal.
The ceramics due polish but it appears more of a burnished finish rather than a true polish. A mirror finish means something a little different to most people. A mirror finish is not hard to achieve at all with the WE but a scratch-less finish takes great care and a lot of time. The scratch-less finish is most easily achieved with shaptons or chosera stones at least in my experience. Much harder and more time consuming with diamond stones in my opinion.
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I wanted to add Dale that don’t go by the “grit” rating with the ceramics. They remove metal much differently than diamonds do and don’t really fit in a diamond progression, this is why I use a 1200/1600 after using the 1500 diamond. In my opinion it would take several hundred strokes with a 1200 ceramic to come close to removing the scratches left by a 1000 diamond stone. The scratching of a 1500 diamond (appr. 3 microns) is less than 1/2 the depth of the 1000 diamond(appr. 7 microns). Under magnification there is a huge difference! The 1500 stones are absolutely worth the price and make a scratch-less finish much easier to obtain. I believe the ceramics of yours will do a better job after using a 1500 diamond stone, at least they do for me.
I worry more about even scratches rather than scratch-less finishes for a vast majority of the knives that I sharpen. I’ve spent many hours on one knife to achieve a scratch-less finish and I don’t do it often.
When I say scratch-less I’m looking with the naked eye as a truly scratch-less finish is an impossibility. Every medium imparts some scratches, the trick is to try to make them small enough that the naked eye can’t see them.
I wanted to add Dale that don’t go by the “grit” rating with the ceramics. They remove metal much differently than diamonds do and don’t really fit in a diamond progression, this is why I use a 1200/1600 after using the 1500 diamond. In my opinion it would take several hundred strokes with a 1200 ceramic to come close to removing the scratches left by a 1000 diamond stone. The scratching of a 1500 diamond (appr. 3 microns) is less than 1/2 the depth of the 1000 diamond(appr. 7 microns). Under magnification there is a huge difference! The 1500 stones are absolutely worth the price and make a scratch-less finish much easier to obtain. I believe the ceramics of yours will do a better job after using a 1500 diamond stone, at least they do for me. I worry more about even scratches rather than scratch-less finishes for a vast majority of the knives that I sharpen. I’ve spent many hours on one knife to achieve a scratch-less finish and I don’t do it often. When I say scratch-less I’m looking with the naked eye as a truly scratch-less finish is an impossibility. Every medium imparts some scratches, the trick is to try to make them small enough that the naked eye can’t see them.
I do think you have something to gain in your outcome if you ad the 1500 grit stone. It is a good finish to the diamond stone progression. There is more to it then just grit or particle size when considering which abrasive medium you use and the order to use them. The ceramics do impart a different kind of scratch pattern then the diamond stones. Every different medium, Diamond stones, Diamond lapping films, Ceramics, Whetstones and strops each produce a different scratch pattern, consistency and depth. It’s the combination and order of use and technique that adds up to produce the results your seeking. The ceramic stones do have a long break in period too, before they’ll give they’re best results.
I thought these are important enough to post them again.
Marc
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Thank you all,
This is good information. I did buy my WE pre-owned and very lightly used. So it is a few years old.
My ceramics have black (coarse) and red (fine).
If I understand sksharp & MarcH, that 1500 diamond might be a good stone to use after the 1000 and before I go to the ceramics.
After the ceramic, Then do I use the glass platen side of the 1500 with the diamond lapping film?
And new topic – I’d been using my 40X jewelers loupe. It works, and it is pretty cool to inspect the edge for sure! But mine eyes grow weary of peering thru that thing, and putting my face 1/2 inch from the blade. I don’t know, I am thinking a usb microscope might find it’s way onto my birthday list. I’ll have to do some searches and on the forum and see what I find.
Thanks
Dale
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