Angle Recommendations for Wusthofs

[Spagery]

I just stropped the trailing edge stroked knife with the leather strops and I cant detect any kind of microbeveling on this blade now like I just seen on the leading edge done blade.

Iam thinking that the back of the bevel is fatter and I will need to hold those strops at the top and maybe put more pressure on them to bend over the bevel now. Maybe even go up a degree, which is surprising.

[Josh]

Ahhh, if I had to guess what is happening, it is this.

When you did the edge leading passes then the stone was actually “tilting” over the edge of the knife (you were putting pressure at the top and the rods aren’t long enough to compensate if you don’t alter your hold). This created a bevel at the very edge that was actually steeper than what you intended it to be and is due to the slop in between the paddles/rods/base joints.

[Spagery]

I just re-stropped the leading edge stroked knife up 1 degree and I started to see some improvement. So I went up another degree and did more stropping.

It is removing the microbevel but its taking alot of work with the strops.

Yea it could have something to do with the slop or maybe the pile up of the metal.

[Spagery]

Someone else should try to recreate the micro bevel I got on the leading edge stroked knife.

Sharpen a blade from 100 grit up to 1000 with leading edge strokes at 20 degree, and then switch to the strops keeping the angle the same and see if it makes a microbevel after a bit of stropping.

If we can keep the slop to a minimum and still see the microbevel it means the cause is the metal piling up behind the bevel.

With the microscope the reflecting light has to be at just the right angle or else its hard to even see the microbevel, so this is kinda tricky.

[Spagery]

Ive never stropped my kitchen knives before.

Usually we just stone them down to the finest stone and that is the edge we use. And we do it with leading edge strokes on the stones because it gives the blade a better slippery feel on the board.

Ive got the 1200 / 1600 paddles coming and my plan was to bring my knives up to their finish and not even use the strops on my own kitchen knives.

[Josh]

…it means the cause is the metal piling up behind the bevel.

not sure I understand what you are meaning…?

[Spagery]

…it means the cause is the metal piling up behind the bevel.

not sure I understand what you are meaning…?[/quote]

When we are doing the trailing edge strokes we are pulling the metal out into a wire at the tip of the edge.

But when you do the leading edge strokes the Opposite is happening. The metal that would normally form into the wire is drawn or cut back and it piles up behind the bevel making it fatter there.

As seen in this thread:

http://www.wickededgeusa.com/forum/10-advanced-techniques-and-sharpening-strategies/4658-leading-or-trailing-strokes?limit=6&limitstart=0&start=48

[Spagery]

So I think when the strop is hitting the high point of the back of the bevel it is bending there instead of at the edge like it would do with trailing strokes.

[Spagery]

After stropping the leading edge knife for awhile to try and remove the microbevel at +2 degree’s ive got it mostly removed by the strops.

And it seems like the cutting board bite has indeed returned.

When I first tested the stropped knife on the board it had an Invisible 1000 grit microbevel and it slid on the board just fine. But after looking at it with the microscope it revealed the microbevel to me and now I can see why the the knife slid on the board.

With all the trailing edge stropping I had to do to remove the microbevel from the edge ive thinned out the bevel and created a wire on the edge again.

Iam heading towards the conclusion that a Stone finish with leading edge strokes is better for Kitchen knives.

[Spagery]

The 1000 grit microbevel still had a “true edge” even tho I put it to the strops.

Because no metal was drawn out over the edge to make a wire.

But after alot of stopping with a trailing edge technique it has drawn the wire out onto the edge.

[Josh]

…it means the cause is the metal piling up behind the bevel.

not sure I understand what you are meaning…?[/quote]

When we are doing the trailing edge strokes we are pulling the metal out into a wire at the tip of the edge.

But when you do the leading edge strokes the Opposite is happening. The metal that would normally form into the wire is drawn or cut back and it piles up behind the bevel making it fatter there.

As seen in this thread:

http://www.wickededgeusa.com/forum/10-advanced-techniques-and-sharpening-strategies/4658-leading-or-trailing-strokes?limit=6&limitstart=0&start=48%5B/quote%5D

From everything I have seen all the evidence weighs against this and this would be considered a hypothesis… 🙂 Did you read the two threads I made in this post?

Specifically the second one shows what happenes on edge leading passes, and the metal does not “pile up”…

From Clay’s post…

“This was a fun study to do – I started with a clean slate, a very highly polished (.25um Diamond on Kangaroo Strops) edge and then created a micro-bevel with the 10k Chosera Stones with 10 edge leading strokes. In this second image [below], you can see how smooth the surface is on the main bevel and at the shoulder of the micro-bevel.

The abrasives hit the edge and begin digging a trough, immediately creating micro-serrations and continuing the scratch all the way to the shoulder. Were the strokes done edge trailing, the same effect would occur in reverse, still resulting in micro-serrations. I’ll repeat the study with edge trailing strokes soon.”

[Spagery]

Its probably partially due to the direction of the of the swipe.

But I think the back edge of the bevel line is higher with leading edge strokes then it is with trailing edge strokes.

Its nearly imperceptible, but then we cant see the wire either, even tho we know it exists.

At least I do because I can “feel” it on the board.

[Josh]

Its probably partially due to the direction of the of the swipe.

But I think the back edge of the bevel line is higher with leading edge strokes then it is with trailing edge strokes.

Its nearly imperceptible, but then we cant see the wire either, even tho we know it exists.

At least I do because I can “feel” it on the board.

Good point… and now that I went back over it I do see some evidence which seems to show that the metal can get pushed around, but it would seem to be inconclusive for now. This bears more research!

[Marc H]

I didn’t realize the discussion would get so deep and interesting when I placed the original post. I’ve read everything contributed.

I ended up resharpening my 7″ Wusthof Santuko at 16dps and sharpened my 6″ Wusthof Cooks/Chef at 18dps. Both knives were sharpened with only leading edge strokes with all diamond pads then both stone pads, followed by stropping at the same sharpening angles with trailing edge strokes.

The knives came out sharper than they ever have been. The bevels look as though I had intended to polish them with very little scratching evident, with the eye.

I just prepped dinner. Both knives slid across the cutting board. They are extremely sharp. They cut with little effort and glide through the food. There is no feeling of toothiness or wire edge. I’ll just have to see how they hold up.

Thanks to all that contributed. Now I’m happily impressed with the WE System.

Marc

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Spagery]

Great, it sounds like you got rid of your wire and now you have a true edge on your blades.

A true edge is much more durable and it will stand up longer in kitchen use, usually the wire edge rolls over after just a bit of work and you can look down the blade edge and see the spots shining back at you.

I still have my suspicions that the stropping only polished the back side of the bevel and didnt reach the edge leaving a microbevel of the last grit progression, but what you have is good for kitchen work.

[Author]

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