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Angle Recommendations for Wusthofs

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This topic contains 46 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Bill 08/10/2014 at 11:27 pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 47 total)
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  • #19753

    Spagery
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    Selecting between the two Identical Knives Blindly I can pickout which knife is leading or trailing edge stroked 100% of the time.

    The difference is that drastic.

    Just by rocking the knife on the board I can tell them apart instantly by the amount of drag they create.

    #19755

    Geocyclist
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    That is amazing. I wonder if some steels (i.e. softer) are worse for this than others.

    Seeing how I have Wusthofs I need to pay attention to this. After I sharpen them I notice the board bite too. Thought it was just due to being razor sharp. On these I am going for speed sharpening, so I don’t do the mixed in edge trailing strokes.

    #19756

    Spagery
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    I think with a speed sharpening of scrubbing or circular motions with the stones you will still get a wire on the edge but it wont be as drawn out as it gets with trailing strokes.

    And I think the best way to limit the wire edge is with the leading edge strokes where you swipe the stone from the edge towards the spine.

    #19757

    Spagery
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    Another thought I had is about stropping.

    I dont know if strops will create a wire the same way that trailing strokes on a stone does.

    It might be that if you do trailing strokes with a strop that it helps to round off the wire. Because the leather bends around the edge a bit.

    So it might be best to do leading edge strokes on your kitchen knifes and if you want to strop them go ahead and do it the normal way with trailing strokes so you dont damage the leather.

    I will need to do some further testing and see.

    But I dont imagine that if I stoned a whole knife with leading edge strokes and then stropped it that it would form a bad wire.

    #19760

    Spagery
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    I just finished stropping the Leading Edge stroked forschner to compare against its Trailing Edge stroked twin.

    With leather strops I did the 5 / 3.5 diamond pastes at the same angles I sharpened the blade, and with normal trailing stroke stropping method.

    As I guessed the stropping did not create a wire along the edge.

    The blade still feels very slick on the cutting surface in contrast to the grab of the other. It has a nice glide when doing the rocking cutting motion.

    I tried this test on both plastic and wooden boards. And I found that the leading edge stroked knife glides better on both of them.

    Ive always had a disdain for the wire edge kept on the house knives of restaurants. Dexters and Gordon Food service blades are considered beater knives and the only time I would use one would be to kill or split a lobster in half so as to safe my personal blades from the abuse of the steel.

    Most serious cooks keep and maintain their own knife kit because they dont like the feel of house knives. We let the prep cooks and dishwashers use them.

    And now I remember years ago my old chef and sous chef telling me not to allow the knife sharpening guy to do our personal knives because the method he used removed too much steel. This is is the first time I heard about a wire edge when the chefs were talking about the feel it made on the board and he used his knives on the stone instead.

    Also HodMa1,

    I think your Wusthof Santuku is made out of German steel which is softer then the Japanese. Generally they keep their angles at 10-15 because the steel is harder then the Germans which need an angle of 18-22

    #19761

    Spagery
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    Hrmm. this is unexpected.

    I just looked at the stropped edge with a microscope and I dont think my strops are going all the way to the edge.

    They seem to be polishing most of the bevel face but leaving a Microbevel of the stoned finish left over.

    This is the blade coming off the 1000 grit stone

    And this is it coming off the 3.5 leather strops

    What I see is the darker portion is the polish effect of the strop and its cutting off just before the edge and then leaving a micro bevel of the old grit pattern.

    #19762

    Josh
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    • Topics: 89
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    Thanks for making this simple test Spagery. I am surprised no one has does it already. Your results make sense.

    there has been research done right here on the forums! 😉 I can’t remember exactly where it is but Clay determined that edge leading produced the sharper edge…

    Check this out for one reference

    And here are some more pics comparing the two…

    Also note that due to the natural result of stropping (slight convexing) it is recommended to lower your angle by 1-2 dps when going from your stones to the strops… this will yeild a sharper edge!

    #19763

    Josh
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    Hrmm. this is unexpected….

    Very interesting! what were the last stones you used before going to the strops? Dis you measure angles w/ an angle cube?

    #19764

    Spagery
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    • Topics: 1
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    Hrmm. this is unexpected….

    Very interesting! what were the last stones you used before going to the strops? Dis you measure angles w/ an angle cube?[/quote]

    I put the knife in the clamp and ran the 1000 grit stones over the blade then I went to the set of strops.

    But I didnt look if the angle changed going from the stones to the strop paddles.

    With my setup I have the basic arms and I use my iphone 5 as an angle cube.

    I will put the knife back in the wicked edge and and see the difference between the stones and the strops.

    I did check the angle of the stones at the very start of the process with my phone to set both sides to 20 degree.

    Stand by.

    #19765

    Spagery
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    Reading the left side with ihandy level I get 20.3 with the stones and 20.5 with the leather strop paddle.

    #19766

    Josh
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    Reading the left side with ihandy level I get 20.3 with the stones and 20.5 with the leather strop paddle.

    If that reading is correct then there is a different issue going on… do you have any kind of micro scope?

    #19767

    Spagery
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    Yea I cant make sense of that because I would of thought it was the other way around.

    Ive got a little portable microscope called an eye clops that goes up to 400x I took those images of the edge at 100x Its kind of touchy to focus it at high magnification.

    #19769

    Spagery
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    • Topics: 1
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    When I first saw it I thought that the strops put a micro bevel on the edge themselves. But you can tell that the bevel is polished by the strops and that its leaving behind the old grit right at the edge.

    #19770

    Josh
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    I wonder if your iphone is off… try moving the strops out a degree or two and see if it hits the very edge. I normally strop at minus 2 dps and it still hits the edge!

    #19771

    Spagery
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    • Topics: 1
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    Hrmmm…

    I wonder if this has something to do with the metal being pushed back to the spine side of the bevel instead of being drawn out over the edge. Making the back side of the bevel fatter then usual.

    Iam gonna strop the other blade done with trailing edge strokes and see what happens.

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