Agreed, which is why I agree with Curtis that Clay’s last experiment is great.
Thanks, Clay!
Josh made a good point that you should not take the number of strokes as a standard, since it depends on a lot of variables. This experiment gives an indication for how fast the various stones work relative to each other.
I think it shows that the diamond stones and films work faster than the ceramic stones. Personally it also strengthens me in my opinion that 1000->SF->MF is the preferred order.
[quote quote=32238]
I guess what I was meaning was how do you know for sure all the previous scratches are removed? If you are going both directions it would seem to be hard to tell.It was talked about a long time ago,,, you can kinda tell when a stone is ‘done’ just by a change in how it feels (it no longer feels like it’s cuttings as aggressively), and by the sound (it quiets down a bit), and if looked at under magnification, you can still see if any scratches stand out from the current finish. (And if the last few posts are any indication, I’m probably going a bit beyond what’s needed anyway). But I also don’t polish bevels out, especially to the level you do, so it’s not as important to me. Usually now on the W.E. I just finish with one of the diamond stones, and use leather just enough to clean up the edge a bit. If I want to refine an edge further, the polish is more of a ‘side effect’ of the sharpening, if that makes sense. [/quote]
Ahhh that makes sense! I do not cross hatch it unless I am going for a true mirror finished edge either, most of the time this isn’t the case. When I’m just sharpening one through 800-1k grit I go all the same direction =)
I agree as well, it’s amazing how fast those work!
Appears to be the case… from this test anyway.
No. Just faster 
.
I hope to do some testing soon with my auto body strips to see what grit works for me to jump off the 1000 grit paddles to next…its somewhere in the sub 10 micron range, I think…I know once I get to lapping films its a quick n smooth progression down to sub 1um.
[quote quote=32269]
Is 6 micron diamond lapping film better for removing 1000 grit diamond scratches than MFC and MFF?No. Just faster
. [/quote]
In this test case faster is better. MFC and MFF makes smoother polish, but they are not as good at removing scratches as 6 um film in the same number of strokes. MFC and MFF should be used after 6 um film (if at all). I would never figured this out without Clay's test pictures.
I think these were a couple of great experiments with quite revealing outcomes. I may want to refer to them in the future and therefore I wrote two blog posts about them: Ceramic stones for the WEPS compared (again) and Efficiency of the Wicked Edge stones and diamond films.
All credits go to Clay, of course. I just summarized his results.
I got curious to see what the jump to the 6µ films looked like going straight from the 600# diamonds. So first, the 600# bevel and edge:
[attachment file=“600#-Edge—A.jpg”]
[attachment file=“600#-Bevel—A.jpg”]
and then 20 strokes each side with a new set of 6µ films:
[attachment file=“6-Micron-Bevel-after-600#—A.jpg”]
[attachment file=“6-Micron-Bevel-after-600#—C.jpg”]
Here are a few other gratuitous shots:
[attachment file=“6-Micron-Bevel-after-600#—F.jpg”]
This is out at the shoulder of the micro-bevel where some larger scratches from some new 600# stones were.
And here are a couple more shots of 600# scratches being erased by the diamond films:
[attachment file=“6-Micron-Bevel-after-600#—D.jpg”]
[attachment file=“6-Micron-Bevel-after-600#—E.jpg”]
I’m really impressed with how quickly the 6µ films work to clean up even the 600# scratches. My 600# stones are pretty well broken in, so I think I’ll give it a whirl with some new stones. I’m slowly preparing to redo the Grit Comparison Chart with new images and these studies are helping me refine my technique and create a plan. I’m thinking of showing the following: New Stone Bevel/New Stone Edge and Broken-In Stone Bevel/Broken-In Stone Edge. My hope is to help people see exactly what each stone does when it’s new and later once it’s broken in. Future studies will include exploring different transitions from stones to strops, diamonds to waterstones, coarse to very fine etc…
BTW, those horizontal scratches are from when I clean the blade with a paper towel and rubbing alcohol. I do better when I’m using a lens cleaner instead. I didn’t think they’d show at such a coarse grit.
20 strokes and almost all of 600# is gone! WOW!
Also would be interesting to see side by side comparison of broken-in stone vs new stone.
Wow! Strong stuff, that 6 micron diamond film!
Clay,
That is a very very neat idea taking images of new and used stones at each grit for new users to get a visual of what’s going on!
Try getting a can of the green Brake Kleen from an auto store… it has acetone in it which cleans super well and evaporates really fast. I have been using it for years and I don’t think you would see any residue left even under high magnification.
Question: are the film prices on the site for an entire sheet or just 2 films (one for each paddle)? It doesn’t specify in the description…
[quote quote=32503]
Try getting a can of the green Brake Kleen from an auto store… [/quote]
This one? CRC BRAKLEEN Chlorine-Free Brake Parts Cleaner - Low VOC
[quote quote=32508]
Try getting a can of the green Brake Kleen from an auto store…This one? CRC BRAKLEEN Chlorine-Free Brake Parts Cleaner – Low VOC [/quote]
Exactly… but it’s cheaper, around $5 from Walmart or the auto parts store =)
Wrong. Paper towel with alcohol are needed to remove tiny leftovers crumbs of shaved blade steel. These crumbs are small particles of blade steel itself and they are as hard as blade steel. You need to remove these steel crumbs after each grit. If you don’t remove them, they will do 2 kinds of damage: 1) make scratches, 2) stick on next grit stone and they will scratch badly all knives you sharpen with that contaminated stone. Paper towel does not cause these bad scratches.
[quote quote=32518]
Josh, I buy that same stuff for its intended purpose at Advanced Auto Parts for 4.79 reg. price and I get a 20% off discount.. making it 3.85.. [/quote]Exactly… but it’s cheaper, around $5 from Walmart or the auto parts store =)Try getting a can of the green Brake Kleen from an auto store…This one? CRC BRAKLEEN Chlorine-Free Brake Parts Cleaner – Low VOC
Yes it’s hard to beat! It makes a great degreaser… NIC Industries (the manufacturers of Cerakote) recommend using it for degreasing gun parts prior to applying the paint. It just carried over into the rest of my shop… that or, wait for it… WINDEX! lol
[quote quote=32516]
Wrong, Wrong.. did you say WRONG???? OH how kind and insensitive… My point ( which you obviously missed )was that using anything to wipe off the blade causes scratches, so why try to (remove all scratches, down to the sub micron, go through all that trouble and time ) when the last thing you do is wipe off the knife???? THAT WAS MY POINT” Wrong indeed [/quote]A real revelation to me; is how a paper towel will cause scratchesWrong. Paper towel with alcohol are needed to remove tiny leftovers crumbles of shaved blade steel. These crumbles are small particles of blade steel itself and they are as hard as blade steel. You need to remove them after each grit. If you don’t remove them, they will do 2 kinds of damage: 1) make scratches, 2) stick on next grit stone and they will scratch badly all knives you sharpen with that contaminated stone. Paper towel does not cause these bad scratches.
Sorry for my misunderstanding… I was under impression that you wrote that paper towel cause scratches: “A real revelation to me; is how a paper towel will cause scratches”. I need to take English reading classes, English is not my mother’s tongue. 
[quote quote=32520]
Yes it’s hard to beat! It makes a great degreaser… NIC Industries (the manufacturers of Cerakote) recommend using it for degreasing gun parts prior to applying the paint. It just carried over into the rest of my shop… that or, wait for it… WINDEX! lol [/quote] Why do you need a degreaser in the first place? Do you sharpen with oil or dry? Why degreaser or windex is better than alcohol?Josh, I buy that same stuff for its intended purpose at Advanced Auto Parts for 4.79 reg. price and I get a 20% off discount.. making it 3.85..Exactly… but it’s cheaper, around $5 from Walmart or the auto parts store =)Try getting a can of the green Brake Kleen from an auto store…This one? CRC BRAKLEEN Chlorine-Free Brake Parts Cleaner – Low VOC
