Hey all,
<p style=“text-align: left;”>I’m new to wicked Edge, and fairly new to sharpening. I just received my new Gen 3 Pro system today, and can’t get a sharp edge on my pocket knife. By this, I mean, I can sort of shave with it, but can’t slice paper. Is this just because the stones are still new? I’ve used this knife as my sharpening guinea pig on a few different sharpening methods ( Lansky, flat stone, SharpMaker), I did reprofile it with the new system today to even out the angles, by getting my wire edge on both sides with a 100-200, then working my way up in grits from there. Maybe like 50 strokes per side per grit. Is this simply due to break in period? I admit I have a lot to learn, but gotta start somewhere. Thanks</p>
Welcome to the W.E. Forum “-Terry”.
Time and time again new users ask this same question and report these same results and sharpening experiences. It’s a combination of new, unbroken-in stones and more so, your inexperience and lack of a W.E. sharpening technique. There is definitely a break-in period for the stones. When the stones have broken in they will yield better results…
But, that is only after you learn what you are doing and how to use the W.E. properly. There is a definite learning curve to what it takes to sharpen a knife well with a Wicked Edge Sharpener. Take this time while your stones are breaking in, read on the forum, ask questions and view lots of YouTube videos and videos in the W.E. “Knowledge Base”, (upper right) to help you to put it all together to learn what works for you. Give time time. Enjoy the journey.
Thank you for the quick response. I have learned a lot from Youtube University already, and put much of it to use with sharpening. I have yet to find one explaining why there are angle numbers on the system, if the height of the blade changes all of that, seems that an angle cube is the only true way to know your angle, maybe Im missing something. I’ll learn it all in due time I guess.
The numbers are intended to be just an indicator, not an actual or true reference to be used to set your bevel angles. These numbers do coordinate with a reference size knife that is 5/8" above the vise jaws, center. Use the inscribed numbers only to give you a reference for the direction to move your angle brackets , up or down as you increase and decrease the angle settings. Like you said the true indication of your relative angle is a properly zeroed digital angle device. This is clearly defined and explained under calibration points in the “Knowlede Base” in the section under “Setting the Angle”.
I remember having the same experience with the first few knives I sharpened on my WE. I had been doing free hand sharpening and using a Lansky with good (but not great) results for a few years prior to using the WE for the first time, so I wasn’t new to the concepts involved in sharpening. Like you, I had watched hours of YouTube footage on how to use the system and thought I was going to get super sharp knives from the get go. My first knives were very disappointing. They barely cut standard printer paper and I don’t think they could shave any hair. I had been getting much better results than that with my Lansky. I was left wondering if I had just wasted my money.
Having seen all of the amazing results that other people were getting, I decided to press onward. Things improved with each subsequent sharpening and I got my first quality edge on the seventh attempt. A large part of the change was undoubtedly the break in of the stones, but there was also some improvement in technique that contributed as well. Now I am able to get a hair whittling edge every time if I’m willing to put in the effort.
Hang in there and stay diligent. Develop a consistent technique and you will be rewarded with beautiful and incredibly sharp results.
Regarding the angle indications: You are correct that using an angle cube is the best way to find the true angle, but the angle markings still serve a useful purpose for those without the angle cube. They can record that they used the 17 degree setting along with the depth key setting for the clamp and this will allow them to easily re-clamp and match the angles on the knife in the future even though the real angle is not 17 degrees.
So again I say, the break in period for the WEPS paddles is an unnecessary inhibitor and should be eliminated at the source. It’s just silly especially for the investment $.
So check out the videos available here for instructions on getting started.
https://support.wickededgeusa.com/portal/kb/articles/wicked-edge-videos
Thanks for all your help .
So how many of you use the method ‘’‘smokeeater908’ shows in his video on this site?
I am very new to the WE system but reading the posts from the forum members help me develop my sharpening “style”. I do use that up/down scrubbing in the beginning, until I develop a small burr then transition to a edge leading motion heel-to-tip and tip-to heel and finish with a few edge trailing heel-to tip strokes. I do this for every grit in my progression. The one exception is the lapping films and strops, in that case ONLY edge trailing strokes otherwise you will end up with messed up lapping films and gauges in the strops.
I’m sure the more experienced folks will chime in with more detailed info. As for counting strokes, well, you can do that, my number was 100 for each grit. I then listened to the wiser folks and spent the $30 for a usb microscope. Bottom line, in my limited experience, it will take as many strokes as required to achieve the desired effect (edge) there isn’t a set number but you can see it with a microscope.
-Terry, some of us begin with the scrubbing strokes, up-down-up-down as we work back and forth along the entire knife edge, on both sides of the knife, in a manner to keep the work effort balanced from side to side. This scrubbing stroke is a good method to remove steel, quickly, from the shoulder to the knife edge, the apex, and to establish the basic bevel shape and set the chosen profile angle you have set with your guide rods. Every stroke after that I use is to refine and smooth the bevels and to insure they are flat and even from shoulder to apex all along the knife edge, on both sides.
I use the scrubbing strokes followed by refining strokes, again and again, for each successively finer grit in my stone progression. It doesn’t matter which strokes you use. That choice is yours. There is no hard and fast rule. It’s up to use to use which ever strokes and the direction to these strokes that give you the results that please you. The ultimate goal is to feel a sharp edge. At the same time a sharp edge is usually shiny and polished as a result of using the Wicked Edge and the mediums.
There is no magic number of strokes to use that will get it done. It takes what it takes. You’ll be done when you decide it’s enough. More is better then less. If you don’t achieve the results that please you, clamp it back up and go at so more.
After about ten knives or so, about the usual time it takes to break in your stones, you’ll begin to get a feel for what’s involved to get the results you’re looking to have. Then you’ll spend the next couple years refining your technique and improving your technique and results to the point that you’ll know how to apply that very sharp edge to each and every knife you choose to sharpen.
I watched a bunch of YouTube videos before buying my Gen 3 and was totally mislead by the guidance provided. These guys with these hard and fast rulesets they’ve come up with are totally wrong. You can’t just say ‘I’m going to give each side 50 strokes and move onto the next stone’.
Could you elaborate?<!–more–>
Could you please elaborate?
[quote quote=52061]
I watched a bunch of YouTube videos before buying my Gen 3 and was totally mislead by the guidance provided. These guys with these hard and fast rulesets they’ve come up with are totally wrong. You can’t just say ‘I’m going to give each side 50 strokes and move onto the next stone’.Could you please elaborate?[/quote] Sure, it all depends on what techniques you use and what your goals are. After I achieve a burr on both edges of the knife, I personally give it a few strokes and then run a Sharpie down both bevels. Then I begin stroking both sides until all the Sharpie has been removed. That's the technique that I've been taught by all the great forum members. Now how many strokes it takes to remove those markings cannot be determined, it might be 10 and it might be 310. Removing that Sharpie and changing the scratch pattern from vertical to diagonal/horizontal is my final goal as I progress through the stones. There are videos out there that teach otherwise.
[quote quote=52065]
Sure, it all depends on what techniques you use and what your goals are. After I achieve a burr on both edges of the knife, I personally give it a few strokes and then run a Sharpie down both bevels. Then I begin stroking both sides until all the Sharpie has been removed. That’s the technique that I’ve been taught by all the great forum members. Now how many strokes it takes to remove those markings cannot be determined, it might be 10 and it might be 310. Removing that Sharpie and changing the scratch pattern from vertical to diagonal/horizontal is my final goal as I progress through the stones. There are videos out there that teach otherwise.[/quote]
I thought the sharpie was just to find the proper angle, and not reapplied again that.
The sharpie can be used anytime, or again and again, if you choose to use that method to determine you are working the entire knife edge and bevels, as indicated by the complete removal of the sharpie ink. What method you use and how you use the method is determined by what you’re comfortable using.
I find I can get and see same results simply observing the edge with a USB Microscope.
I use the sharpie for every stone change as an extra check that I set the right angle. You are correct in saying we use the sharpie line in establishing the correct sharpening angle but…Keep in mind that the sharpening stones can and will vary in thickness from grit to grit. The difference is minimal, but is there so, following the advice of the more experienced members, I check the angles with every stone change.
Wealth of knowledge on this forum. Thanks everyone
This introduces another point of discussion for me:
The angles the cube reads allows you to set the guide rod angles the same, no matter how thick the stones are. An angle = an angle.
It is correct, a marker can show you when your angle is off by it’s removal from only a portion of the bevel. If the angle is then double checked and verified as set correctly and precisely, then the marker is probably indicating the stone is not be held and used with the same finger position and/or finger pressure which it was used with the previous grit. Changing stone pressure and finger position can steer the stone’s contact on the bevel.
The newest version wider W.E. guide rods and the new tighter fitting W.E. plastic paddles, (included standard with all the latest version models), help eliminate most of this inconsistency, if your hand and finger pressure is always the same. Using the marker can help you identify how you need to hold the paddles and position your fingers on the paddles to efficiently and completely work the entire bevel. This is indicated by total clean removal of the marker when the angles are set the same. Also, it’s indicated with a complete uniform scratch pattern across the entire bevel height from shoulder to apex when the marker is not used and the bevel is inspected with the USB scope.