I currently have a WE100PR2, Pre 2017. So a Pre-2017 Pro 2 that all fits nicely in the Nanuk 940 case.
I’m considering upgrading to the WE 130 with the WE130UP1 kit, it includes a new vise, guide rods and a degree bar. So my question is, will these new components fit into my existing case?
What I’m looking at is this… I’m replacing almost my entire WE, except the blue aluminum mount, granite base and stones. If my case also doesn’t work, and all my stones are the older style so don’t fit the new rods nicely, am I better off selling my whole system as is, and replacing it with a newer 130 pro Pack?
I sharpen almost exclusively full flat ground and/or distally tapered blades. I’m having trouble with the current system though I am getting decent results. Nothing I would scream about though, and nothing I cannot do by hand. So I want to get this system either dialed in, but don’t want to end up half way into an upgrade only to have significantly underestimated cost.
Justin, hello and welcome to the Forum. I started with the Pro Pack 2. I too upgraded to make it into the WE130 or Pro Pack 3. I never did try to put it in the case so I can’t answer your case question. I’m sorry to hear your not getting the results you wish to achieve. The WE130 clamp is easier to use and eliminates the clamping tilt associated with the old screw type clamp that came with your Pro Pack 2. The clamp will not give you better results, though. Better results I believe is from time, practice and technique. Everything is the same and done the same, with both systems, except the first step; clamping the knife. So just changing the clamp I’m afraid may not give you better results. The results you should get and expect from the Pro Pack 2 should far exceed what you’ve described, just being like a “free hand” sharpening job.
Maybe if you could share some more about your not impressive edges that we on the Forum may help you with. Your edges should be much more even, acute and shinier than a free-hand sharpened edge. I wouldn’t want you to invest more expecting a drastic difference because used as intended the Pro Pack 2 can deliver a hair popping mirror like edge, repeatedly, at the precise angle of your choosing.
Thanks for the reply. I suppose I will call in to the shop to get the case question answered.
On the results side, I have tons of trouble with the vise. I don’t want to scratch my knives when clamping them, so I put a piece of aluminum tape on the spine and flat or primary bevel, depending on the knife, then a coat of blue painters tape. I snug the top screw up, and tighten the bottom one, most times if I just gently push the handle of the knife, it will come right out of the vice. Like spin towards me and fall right out. with the edge now facing me. If I tighten it more, the blade starts to tilt off the vertical axis. Then I need to take it out and do it all again. Once I finally get it secure sometimes it’s not in the sweet spot anymore. So it’s a lot of pissing around. Sometimes 15 minutes to get it into final stable position. Then sometimes when I check on it mid sharpen, it’s off axis from vertical again. Sometimes as much as half a degree.
So I can get down to a pretty good mirror polish, but I can’t get them hair whittling sharp. Shaving sharp easily, but not to the point of being able to pass the hanging hair test or similar.
The above edge was achieved by hand. I was too frustrated to monkey with the WEPS due to long setup time, and worried about damaging the Damascus… and had a new leather strop to break in so figured no risk to the rare Damascus and need to work a strop so why not. Also was comfy with a slight convex edge on it.
This one is my latest go on the WEPS, good polish but not particularly sharp compared to the one done by hand. Easily shaves arm hair, but won’t cut hanging hair.
Justin, thanks for the additional info. You would find it a great help and relief to clamping issues that you described if you were to upgrade to the WE130 clamp. It is much easier to quickly and securely clamp a knife, open the jaws make an adjustment and reclamp it. You can do it over and over in seconds what takes like forever with the old style clamp. I place a patch of real chamois used dry around the spine and up the sides then insert the knife down in between the jaws. The chamois both protects the steel and compresses under clamping pressure to tightly hold the knife. The new tension adjustor allows you to increase or decrease the tension to adapt for thinner or thicker knives. If a securely clamped knife is the roots of your issue, keeping you from using and enjoying your WE then definitely upgrading the clamp will help you greatly. The new clamp is quick and easy and has taken all the clamping issues and inconvenience out of the Pro Pac 2. Simply said, “I love this new clamp”.
Since you stated you do sharpen distally tapered knives, be sure the upgrade WE130 Vice you purchase comes with the new style split jaws. They were specifically designed for tapered knives. The new vice will remove the hassles and make it enjoyable for you to improve your technique and get great results.
Thanks very much. Just got off the phone with Kyle, and yes, the Nanuk 940 will not work with the 130 vice, it is too shallow of a case. Sooo. By the sounds of it, I want to replace basically my entire WE100 with a 130.
Now since you already did this upgrade, are you still using your original stones? My last question is this. Are the new arms and old stones a bad, sloppy fit?
Trying to decide if I am better off to sell my WE100 Pro 2 and buy a new 130, or just do the upgrade and keep my old stones.
Justin, the new arms work very well with the old stones. The fit is snugger now with the new arms. I can not tell any difference in feel between the new arms with old stones VS new arms with new stones. All your old stones and strops will work well. Whichever way you choose to go I know you’ll be happy with the WE130.
I’m sorry to hear the old case won’t work. With a new foam insert the old case will be useful for something or to someone. They sell for $150, new.
Welcome to the forum, Justin! I also tried the WE130 vise (and I am expecting a permanent one…) and I can confirm it works much easier than the older one. The only thing I find odd is that you are not able to clamp your knives securely in the older vise. I usually only use some painters tape to protect the knife against scratches and if I turn the screws tightly, I am able to lift the entire WE, including the base, by the knife (be careful though!). Are you sure there is nothing wrong with your current vise?
Mark, I think he’s having the problem because he’s dealing with fully flat ground blades. That said, Clay did demonstrate that the old clamp can be used on FFG blades if you add some foam to the upper part of the jaws.
For me the Gen 3 clamp was a turning point. It really made the WE easy and a pleasure to use. But now with the newer split jaws and tension adjustment it’s really great. Setting up a knife and making multiple adjustments to find the sweet spot or match an existing bevel angle is quick and simple. It’s easier than ever to replicate an edge and match the previous bevel repeatedly, dead-on, on the first try. As long as my sharpening log is explicit I can match the clamping position every time.
Thanks Gentlemen. I am going to order the upgrade. Just need to decide on the new L brackets or not.
I should add most of my knives also have a distal taper, in addition to a FFG, so they are hell in the WE100. I suppose some foam or something may help, but that makes for a whole bunch of playing around I don’t want to do. I’ll skip the chamois for now hoping the 130 is sufficient along with some painters tape. Most of the knives I do are expensive as far as my budget goes so it’s important not to damage them.
I think you’re going to be pleased with your purchase decision. The single action clamp is a very nice feature and really makes it so you can set up a knife in a matter of seconds. I don’t own any FFG blades, so I can’t comment on how it handles them from personal experience, but the new clamp was designed with these blade attributes in mind, so I think it will improve your sharpening experience significantly.
I did, with Kyle on the phone. I ordered a WE130UP1, so new vice, degree bar and guide rods. But I retain the previous L brackets and ball joints. Do you guys think the new L-brackets and ball joints are worth the $70 upgrade? Based on Kyle’s input, I went with keeping the existing ones. But I’m open to suggestions at this point.
My order MAY ship Friday, but likely not till Monday, so I guess I could still change it if you guys think I ordered the wrong upgrade or something.
I also ordered Glass platens with 6 and 3 lapping films, and the 4/2 micron diamond emulsion and leather strops pack. I will add those two steps between my micro fine ceramics, and my existing 1/.5 micron paste leather strop.
The current progression is diamond up to 1000. Then I switch to 1200/1600 ceramic, Fine and Micro Fine ceramic, now adding in 6/3 lapping, then 4/2 leather strop, and finally 1/.5 leather strop so that each step is fewer passes, and I will end up with a good polish, and a sharper edge.
I should add, I have zero experience with lapping, but have stropped by hand a bunch, so I’m familiar with that process.
I’m not sure where I should be adding lapping to improve my stropping, maybe even lapp all the way down to .5 with a final few passes with a strop, I have no idea. So open to input there.
My goal is to have a mirror polish, be able to do frequent touch ups tot he knife in my pocket with an easy, repeatable setup, and at minimum maintain a shaving sharp edge, but would like to be able to pass the hanging hair test, with the high polish level I’m after.
Edit: I just called back, Kyle is probably getting bored of my calls by now, to change to the upgrade 3, as that will give me a complete second system, basically. I’ll figure out what to do with it later lol!
Justin, I have all the upgrades but still use the old “L” brackets. I don’t believe there’s a reason to replace them as long as the threaded hole for the ball joint are clean and smooth, and the threads for the locking thumb screws are also good. The male threads on the ball joint screw do become flattened from clamping pressure when locking them with the thumb screw. The ball joints I’ve had to replace. Now I use a nylon thumb screw to lock them, in place of the original metal ones. Some users use a small piece of plastic material inserted in the threaded holes with the old metal thumb screws.
I think you would do well to order the 1500 diamond / glass platen combo and use this in place of, or in addition to, the 1200/1600 ceramics. That also gives you one more glass blank for an additional lapping film. I like to follow my diamond progression up to 1500. I think that 1500 is a very good finishing stone. The strops are a good call. I love the diamond emulsion 4/2 pair.
All the ceramics, (1200/1600, 1.4/0.6) take a lot of use to break them in before you’ll realize their full potential.
I am sure I will forget or be missing something from this order, so I can always do a small follow up order afterward.
Do you think the diamond 1500 with say a 9 or 6 micron film would replace my ceramics? I’m kinda murky on the 1500 with the 1200/1600 ceramic. Wouldn’t it be a step backwards from the 1500?
I don’t think I have broken in the ceramics yet, so not too keen on replacing them!
Would the 1500 then a 6 micron lapping film replace my ceramics all together? I’d have an extra surface, but then I would probalby have a finer lapping film, like a 1.5?
So would you suggest diamond to 1500, then 6/3/1.5 micron lapping film, then a 4/2 & 1/.5 micron strop? Goal again being hanging hair test and mirror finish.
The 1500 paired with the 6µ is a good way to go. I do think the films can replace the ceramics if your goal is a visually mirrored polish. I have done well with the films down to 1.0µ. Smaller than that my results are sometimes less predictable.
[quote quote=42244] So would you suggest diamond to 1500, then 6/3/1.5 micron lapping film, then a 4/2 & 1/.5 micron strop? Goal again being hanging hair test and mirror finish. [/quote] Yes I like that progression. Realize when your changing abrasive mediums the grits don’t always correlate or follow linearly down the grit range. It’s usually a good idea when switching mediums to step back up a grit and allow the overlap or repetition if you will of the grit size.
I have found that an edge will sometimes pass the Hanging Hair Test (HHT) prior to stropping and not pass HHT after stropping. But it will cut more smoothly and feel sharper after stropped.
I will go forward with what I have now. Diamond to 1000, then 1200/1600 and 1.4/.6 micron ceramic. Then 6/3 diamond lapping film, and finally 4/2 emulsion & 1/.5 micron diamond paste on leather. I do feel I should be able to get a better result than I have been getting, and dividing up the cost would help, as currently I am off work for 6 weeks with a broken foot so I am not getting paid.
On the bright side, it has given me lots of time to play with knives and the WE!
