This post got overlooked. The order is generally: Diamond stones, (ceramics or no ceramics, your choice), diamond lapping films, strops. As I said early a stropped knife will loose the wire edge that I believe is helpful or needed to pass HHT. I do feel the stropped edge is sharper and smoother. I think a knife sharpened to demonstrate a HHT may not be durable enough for the pocket.
A stropped knife will loose the wire edge, but stropping will also make the edge sharper apart from that (due to burnishing). And if you’re going for a mirror polish, the answer is quicky made.
Thanks again Guys, I will report back once I get the new stuff setup.
I have done away with all my ceramics as I find them not necessary when going to the films, even the 9 micron films don’t show much scratch pattern improvements over the 1500 diamonds. Although it is not a perfect science/progression as different steel/heat treats react a bit differently.
Thanks Redheads. Currently without ceramics, I would be going to 6 micron film from 1000 grit diamond. So I could buy the 1500… The thing is, I will be in over $500-$600 on this order, and $800ish on my last one, and still barely using the system.
I’m tempted to grab a 1500, and match it with a 6 micron film, then go down to a 1.5 micron film with the 3 I just ordered, then the 4 leather strops, but that is another $100, replacing $200ish worth of stones I haven’t even broken in and I’m feeling pretty tapped out.
So fast forward a week or two, everything is here and I give it a go, if it is working well, shouldn’t be a big deal to grab a couple things to really flesh it out, maybe sell my ceramics to offset the cost if possible, but I’m thinking that is Clay is using Shapton stones, rather than diamond, and going right into fancy CBNs etc, then that is probably the way to research next as I doubt he would be using them if diamond were better. Looks like they don’t sell those though, so there is a lot to figure out.
I guess I really feel like I’m starting to split hairs, and without a microscope I am kinda doing it all in the dark. So that might be a better place to spend money next. However I am perfectly fine not reinventing the wheel where someone is already demonstrating the results I want. I am tempted to just go their proven route. So if the general concensus is the ceramics should be replaced with the 1500, then I can do that. No point in getting worse results over $100 difference when I am in close to about $1500.
I bought this system a few years ago now, as you can see I registered here back in 2012, but never did post. Over that time I spent way more time sharpening by hand, but have finally got to the point where I wanted to dial in the WE as I can see the potential in the system, I have the time off work to figure it out, and I think it deserves one more try. So I want to really focus on the core of the system, and am open to perfecting the progression after that.
Finally, I am working on steels I do not see many other people using a WE on, primarily Vanax 37, with a little M390 and S90V thrown in from time to time. The other steel I work on is Delta protocol 3V, which is going to be the next knife I do when the new upgrade comes, but I am yet to put that in front of the WE.
I have a young family, I have already done over 2000 hours at work and I’ve been off a month, a 100 mile round trip commute and never ending renovations. So I just haven’t found myself satisfied with the monkeying around. One night in 220 minutes of trying to sharpen I got maybe 2 in before I ran out of time, where the freehand stones can be setup in literally a minute.
So I am really hopeful the 130 is going to be the ticket to an easy repeatable setup. I have my space to setup and work, so it should all be a go!
So what do I do, 1500 or not?
Justin go with what you have coming. Figure it out with the new vice and jaws. Get your technique down. Figure your repeatability out. See the results of what your mediums produce. Then…after learn how to use what you have, and also, what your getting soon, and understand what all you have, then buy some more goodies! Especially if time is limited in your busy schedule. Just MO.
BTW I too use Shapton Glass Stones then go to strops.
Thanks Marc,
I’m gonna do that. My partner in knife collecting also uses Shapton glass on his Edge Pro, I know a couple others as well who freehand with them, and all get good results. I also get good results as is, but am looking for better than good!
Justin - I don’t use the Shaptons at all. I have a set, but I haven’t pulled them out in a couple of years. I do straight diamonds through 1500, then usually lapping films and finish with strops, most commonly the 4/2 set though I’ll go finer if I’m looking for a more perfect finish. I still use ceramic stones on knives where I want a good finish and a very sharp edge but am not looking for a mirror. I usually follow the ceramics with a little stropping.
Justin, I do use Shapton Glass Stones, often. I find I can get pretty much the same polish and fine, even predictable scratch pattern from the SGS as I can with Diamond Lapping Films, (DLF). The advantage to using the SGS is they can be used edge-leading, edge-trailing and with a scrubbing motion with out damage to the stones. Whereas with DLF you must exercise real care to use them any other way then edge-trailing to avoid cutting and gouging them.
Both these mediums are consumable with the DLF wearing out or cutting much quicker than the stones will wear. The SGS are a true costly investment and the Shapton Diamond Glass Lapping Plate is worthwhile and needed, to maintain the flatness, and a costly investment too. But once you go for the expense you’ll have the use for many, many, years to come.
I have found, IMO, that some of the newer Super Stainless Steels" seem to sharpen well and easier with the SGS then with metal Diamond Stones or DLF. I can’t say for sure whether it’s the hardness or toughness of the SGS or that they’re use with a spritz of water. Maybe the water cools the metal or lubricates it. They do seem to sharpen the new steels with less effort, less chipping and quicker than diamonds stones.
Thanks Clay, and thanks Marc.
I’m going to go with what I have for now, diamond with the possibility of changing after I get some experience with the new system. I’m kinda sitting on the 1500’s thinking I might as well just add them, but kinda iffy. Hopefully Kyle calls me back and if my order hasn’t shipped yet, I will add a set I guess.
What would my progression be in said case, diamond to 1500, DLP I have on order is 6 & 3, would I want to add a 1.5? Then strops I have a 4/2 emulsion and 1/0.5 paste on leather. doing the 1500, I would skip the ceramics as well, and consider adding whatever film made sense, if there is one. I’ve read 6 micron after 1500 is the way to go, but not sure going down to 1.5 in DLP then back up to 4 in leather is a good idea, maybe just skip the 4 and go 2?
Thank you Gentlemen.
That is almost the exact progression I use when I’m going all in; 100#-1500# on the diamond plates and then 6 micron, 3 micron, 1.5 micron, 4 micron / 2 micron on cow leather.
You will undoubtedly discover that the strops work quite differently than the diamond plates and diamond lapping films do. The diamond particles are not totally stationary on the surface and the leather itself seems to grip the steel. There is still a bit of mystery behind exactly what is happening at a microscopic level, but the net effect seems to be that the jagged scratches left on the bevels by the hard abrasives are smoothed over and the apex is cleaned of any remaining burr. Because they work so differently, it is not uncommon to use a strop loaded with diamond particles significantly larger than those of your previous non-strop abrasive.
That progression you wrote is a winner, Justin. The grit progression when switching media is not always linear, (i.e., 4,3,2,1). The abrasives may be different and behave a little differently when attached to a different substrate. I have found that when I switch medium it is never hurtful or a waste of time to step back up the grit chart one size. So 1500 Dia Stone > 6µ DLF, 3µ, 1.5µ > 4µ Strop, 2µ Strop will deliver quite an ultra sharp and finely polished edge. You may want to also use 1.0µ strop then 0.5µ if your goal is really a mirror polished edge.
This is what Organic is using good results.
Thanks Guys. I was able to add the 1500 diamond/Glass handle pack and a 1.5 micron sheet, so hopefully that arrives by the end of the week and I can get a knife through the new system.
Only question left is where I can get to on the HHT test, and do I need to add 2-4 more steps below 0.5 micron at some point to get to HHT-5. But not today!
Justin you’ll be forced to be patient. There is a break-in period on your new stones. There is a learning curve to figure out the WEPS and most important you’ll need to develop a technique that gives you repetitive, consistent, effective results before you’ll have an edge to qualify in a HHT. It won’t be too long. I’d suggest you do a YouTube search for a “Hanging Hair Test” video.
I’ve got decent results before, Marc. Just nothing super crazy blow my mind, considering the PITA setup was. I see now that I could have cured that with a chamois, but somehow that escaped me until I was already well into getting the Upgrade to the 130 model. I would say I can easily reach in the shaving sharp range, I could gently slide the knife down my arm and easily shave the hairs off without damaging my skin, no problem. Mirror polish edges, absolutely. Sticky sharp in a fingernail. But not HHT sharp. Might be that I was using an inappropriate progression as well.
Justin, sounds like your well on your way.