Zamfir

[Zamfir]

I looked over the pictures again and it looks like there is a micro-burr in almost all of them because of how the light is coming off the apex. At that magnification I do not think we could even see carbide tear out can we?  A carbide is small. We can see chipping and maybe the tear out you are seeing is the micro-burr torn off.  The left circle was a chip at one point and looks like it was never fully removed.  But the rest all look like micro-burrs.  Which I have not figured out how to remove on this steel.

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[Zamfir]

I too have been having trouble with my 110sv Spyderco.  Never been able to make it push cut sharp.  I know my stones are broken in lol.  Been forever since I posted here. I am glad to see Tom and Mark posting!!  Those 2 helped me so much in the past.  Turns out that s110v is very finicky with heat treatment. I will not go into the details of the metallurgy transformation. That can be found on Knife Nerds.  If not done just so, it can be nice and hard but create a devil of a micro burr. I have tried grinding off the edge flat with 1000 grit perpendicular (removing the apex) and sharpened only edge leading (stone above edge and down into it) as to try and not create a burr at all. I think it still does somehow.  400 is as low as I go.  I believe I am seeing micro burrs in a few of your good scope pictures.  This is the only steel that I have not beat yet in over a decade of using the WE sharpener.  It will get shaving sharp. And it will not stay sharp for very long.  I need to get out the microscope!  I had been using a nice stereo microscope at work to check it often as I use it. So if it is not a micro burr, then it is micro chipping.  I use all diamonds. 17deg each side.  If it is micro chipping, I will start to add a 20deg micro bevel to see if that helps.  That is what I had to do with my ZDP blade.   Thanks for the thread and pictures!

[Zamfir]

It will submit one way or another. 

I would like a Paramilitary with this steel on the cheap 😉let me know !

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[Zamfir]

Heck No I don’t feel like you are disrespecting my experience man!  I had talked to Josh about this awhile ago which had lead me to pick up some new stones.  Now that they are broken in (Ill see about that when I get the scope out) I am ready to finish off my vacation with some serious attempts at sharpening this sucker while using the scope.  I had just gotten so used to being able to feel where I was at and throwing great edges on everything I sharpened without having to bring out the microscope (used some hand loupes occasionally) but this sucker is calling my bluff in thinking I know what I am doing.  lol.  A fella gets used to certain blades and steels and can hammer out great edges.  I just really think this one is different (actually really hard) and you are probably right.  I do not think it is a bum heat treat or bum steel because Spyderco has sharpened it 2 times and it lasted a good long time.  The lock pissed me off because it was sticky and I just did not use the blade for a long time.  Then I drove it to them one night and left it with them to fix it. They fixed it and sharpened it.  Time to blow the dust off the microscope and sit down with some good toons and see what there is to be seen.  I too am glad to see some familiar names still posting away here.  This place is my go to for getting real information on sharpening.

Thanks!  Ill follow up with what I find.

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wickededge

[Zamfir]

Thanks for the links Marc!  Ahh the Holidays, finally some time for sharpening and forum browsing.  Interesting idea and experience on the more vertical strokes. I am glad I read it after this last sharpening session.  I just picked up some new medium and fine paddles. After talking to some friends I realized mine were probably worn out. So many knives over the years..  They should be close to broken in after sharpening my families kitchen knifes so I hit my 110sv again last night.  Now to see how long it will hold its edge since I did not use the vertical strokes so much but all edge leading.  It is interesting to think of the forces and actions on the particles.  It would make sense that they could get knocked out more easily edge trailing for sure, but also with a slight horizontal element to the stroke.  Ill have to get the scope out when back at home and play with this technique.  I may be dealing with the crumbly apex scenario.  It is sharp for a little while but does not last like it did right out of the box.

 

After making a few knifes myself and heat treating them I now understand how easy it is to get slight differences in hardness.  It is a very picky process with the methods used and with time involved in all aspects.  Time with soaks, and more important, time between and during temperature changes.  With Super steels, they are expensive raw material, and some are harder to machine and grind in their unhardened state.  This leads to less people using them.  This makes it expensive to make blades out of them.  This leads to less testing for performance at different hardness levels which adds to the mystique of these steels. There are all kinds of different hardness of the same steel floating around and different batches from the same manufacturers. Each hardness can perform much differently from each other. Great Thread here Marc.  It is a fun and challenging task trying to figure these steels out.

Happy New Year!

-Eric

[Zamfir]

Let me clarify. I am used to getting my working blades to push cut paper easily when ending at my 400 grit stones. I was not able to do that with my 110sv blade. It will easily do that now after I followed the grit progression past 1000 stones.  The 400 grit gives a great toothy bite that will push cut phone book paper easily. I can get that with zdp189, CTS XHP but Just not on this knife.   That was my question or “problem” if you will.

 

It it for sure could be a function of this particular blades heat treat and temper.  I was curious if it was a function of the makeup of the steel in general or just this blade I have.

 

Does that hat make sense?

[Zamfir]

jabas2000 wrote:

I had no problems.

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So you are saying you got your blade to push cut that paper stopping at your 400 grit stones?  The edge looked polished to me which would indicate you went way beyond that.

[Zamfir]

Thanks Mark!

ill have to check out the links.

 

I ended up moving through all my grits on diamond and finished it off with some 13 film. Everything into the edge on downward strokes. It will shave close to the skin so I know it is sharper than it was.

 

I could not not get the sharpness to progress to push cut with the 600 grit stone. I hit a wall and it must have been chipping out. I had to go up in grit to get the edge to not reflect light with the microscope. I had just not encountered this before. Now to use it for a while to see how it holds up.  Then I can research some more. Might have to pick up that 1500 diamond stone/platten  set.  That did not exist lst time I was around. We were just testing out the new clamp system. That was a neat pass around

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wickededge

[Zamfir]

Super cool!

And for any of you that has an FSA account, you can use that money for Baindaids, first aid kits etc..

I am going to get some to try out also.

Thanks!

-Eric

[Zamfir]

tcmeyer wrote:

New diggs? Have you moved to a higher elevation? It’s good to see you visiting once again!

The new website here is what I meant by new diggs 

Thanks Tom!

 

[Zamfir]

Big fan of the micro-bevel here also.  I need to try out going lower than 17 on my main bevel lol.  The last steel I had been playing with EDC had been ZDP..it no likey 17DPS..chips out on staples rather than dulling.  with a 22dps microbevel on there it worked well..but does not stay hair popping for long at all.  Currently I am trying out CTS-XHP.  Still playing with the straight 17dps..that is my go to angle to start with to see how the steel will react with my usage.  Then adapt a micro bevel after that.  So far, the CTS-XHP is not chipping so I should be able to go lower on the main grind.  I will take that lower until I notice a slightly unstable edge, then throw on a microbevel by adding 5 dps to the main grind.  Been a while, not used to the new diggs here yet.  lol.

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M1rrorEdge, Mark76, wickededge, Gib Curry

[Zamfir]

Thanks for the work on this!

[Zamfir]

I had the same problem at first. Then I got some isopropyl alcohol and put it in a spray bottle. I put 3 super tiny dots of the compound on each strop. divide that pea by 3… Then, making sure I had freshly washed hands, I soaked the paddles with the alcohol..then used my finger to distribute the paste evenly rubbing a little as I went..Then the paste about disappears as the alcohol dries. Then use them a bit.

Or, some people will lightly scuff the leather with some fine grit sandpaper and then do the same thing. It really helped mine out.

[Zamfir]

Exactly Tom! That is my next step is to determine the fasteners. With these first blades I am not doing epoxy or anything permanent because I want to be able to experiment with some different handle styles (shapes). G-10 is my favorite handle material and I will play with some different shapes and maybe try out some other materials.

The steel for the 2 large hunters is 1084 high carbon. The other blades are AEB-L stainless steel. I went with stuff my heat treating friend has experience with and has had really good results with. I have to be careful with the AEB-L as it warps more than others. So I am learning and My friend and I are doing a little experimenting with the AEB-L. One of the small blades I will leave alone and profile after hardening. He has also learned that surface grinding the blades before heat treating seems to really help with warping. So we will do that also. More and more people are discovering AEB-L and it is starting to get some good traction in the knife world. My friend is getting it to 61-62 rockwell hardness. While he is teaching me on these fixed blades I am trying to catch up to him. He is starting to turn out some nice folders now. I want to make a folder out of AEB-L so I can use it daily and torture it a bit to see how it holds up.

The 1084 choice is just for cost, and it is such a great value steel. Super close to 1095 without the ability to do Hamons but a much easier heat treat process. Functionally 1095 and 1084 are so close. But I figure I will screw plenty up so I might as well use some very functional steel (1084) and then when I get better and want more pretty..I can do 1095 and have him put a hamon on it. I need to pick out fastners this week and get to drilling and so I can heat treat this weekend.

[Zamfir]

Now I need to figure out what size holes to drill. Profile all done. After holes then comes the hard part.

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