Mark

[Mark]

Well said!!

Thanks Marc.

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Marc H

[Mark]

I do recall reading this at some point. I’m going to keep this in mind moving forward. With the knives that I have done that are slightly off I will try to make adjustments when I touch them up.

Thanks!

[Mark]

Your words are exactly what has been going through my mind over the last day or so. When is it good enough? The perfectionist in me is always striving for that little bit better, more precise, a tighter fitting joint in my woodworking, etc, etc. At the end of the day we are typically our own worst critic and more often than not we are the only ones who see the “imperfection” because we know exactly where the imperfections lie. Someone else looks at what we have done and thinks it’s perfect. In the meantime we have driven ourselves crazy trying to achieve something just a little better than last time. To a degree this is good though, this is how improvement is gained.

An old cabinetmaker once told me, “you will never make it perfect, but you can make it look perfect”. I’ve never forgotten those words and I always remember them when I’m driving myself crazy trying to “make it perfect”. LOL

That being said I am very satisfied with the level of sharpness I am able to achieve using the WE. When you can pop hair off your arm with virtually no effort I’d say it’s sharp. I will continue to check things as I move forward paying particular attention to my technique. Although I don’t think I overworked one side more than the other it is totally possible that I inadvertently did just that. I am also going to pay closer attention to the bevels on knives I haven’t already sharpened. In hindsight, some of what I am experiencing may have been pre-existing and through sharpening I magnified this slightly.

Thanks Marc. I really appreciate the insight and feedback you have provided. The perfectionist in me is going to look into that new cube…I think that’s something I just gotta have!!

Mark

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Marc H

[Mark]

Appreciate the feedback Marc.

I took some more measurements last night, but they’re not necessarily consistent. This could be the cube, changes in the square as it is locked up or the square itself. After my measurements last night I took a closer look at the square and although it is not grossly misshapen it does appear to have seen better days. I don’t know what, if any influence this may have on my readings but I am going to try a different one to rule out any error this may be introducing.

I’ve attached a PDF of the readings along with a couple of photos. The first set of readings aren’t necessarily terrible given the +/- 0.2 degree limitations of my cube. The second set of readings are after switching the jaws from side to side and overall they are not as close as the previous orientation readings. Here again I don’t know if this indicates some minor misalignment or something other than the vise. Here again the tolerance of the cube has to be considered. Of note, was the fact that I again had to remove the pins by pushing them from the rear to the front. As mentioned in my previous comments, the pins are just to tight to push them from the front to the rear without getting more aggressive than I feel is or should be required. This doesn’t make sense to me and leads me to believe there may be some sort of misalignment issue here.

All this being said checking the blade on a square is relatively easy given the geometry of the square. This becomes much more difficult when you have a blade that has features where you can’t simply place the cube against the blade and obtain a consistent reading, such as the Cold Steel knife I show above. I did watch the YouTube video Tom Meyer posted about the Gen 1 vise. In this video he had a small piece of flat stock that he used to place against the blade and then set his cube against. I suspect this would be the simplest way to check angles when a blade is mounted in the vise. In essence if it is mounted vertical the angle reading on the left side should match the angle reading on the right side when holding the flat stock against the blade.

My quest continues…

Mark

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[Mark]

Thanks Marc,

Apologies for the explanation. Even writing it was somewhat confusing so I totally understand it not being real easy to follow and picture what I’m describing. In hindsight I should have taken some pictures which would have made describing this and you being able to understand it much easier.

My chamois comment may have been misleading. The jaws clamped the square quite tightly. Although I didn’t try, it’s likely clamped tight enough that I could lift the whole assembly off the table by the square. However, without the chamois it has a tendency to slightly tilt or roll side to side in the jaws when lateral pressure is applied. I’ve noticed the same thing with some knives. I was of the understanding that using tape or a piece of chamois was not only to prevent marring of the blade surface but to help to prevent this lateral movement or tilting when side pressure is applied?? Is my understanding correct? When I was checking angles on the square last night I didn’t want to introduce an error by having the ruler inadvertently tilt, especially when placing or removing the cube with the magnets. I’ll try tape tonight instead of the chamois and see if that makes a difference in the clamping and/or readings. Based on my testing last night I was getting a 1.0 degree tilt to the right with the square. Even though this may be pushing the accuracy limits of my cube I could see a tilt in the vertical arm of the square which was definitely exaggerated as you suggested would be evident in your original reply. I am going to play around with this more tonight because if anything a square should mount perpendicular as the blade is straight and flat with no taper in any direction as opposed to a knife blade which could taper from spine to edge as well as handle to tip.

I like the idea of swapping the left and right jaws to see if this makes a difference or how the reading might change. I have a small mark on the right jaw so anytime I have removed these I have always reassembled them the same way. I will definitely check this out tonight. I have the 1/4″ jaws for wider blades, but this is not the jaw set currently installed in the vise.

I was also thinking that it is probably time for a cleaning so this is another good suggestion which will allow me to ascertain if there is anything that may be slightly loose or misaligned. One thing I have noticed is that when I try pushing the jaw pins out from the handle side towards the back of the vise the pins are very tight and difficult to push out, but if I push them out from the back side towards the handle they push out moreeasily. Initially I thought this was part of the design and they were possibly meant to be unidirectional. However, I notice in the disassembly photos from the link you provided they show pushing the pins from the handle side towards the back. This was something I noticed the first time I ever tried removing the pins…not sure if this is indicative of an issue??

Once I have disassembled everything, cleaned all the parts and reassembled (likely this weekend) I will try the ruler again and check angles. In my mind,  the ruler/square should clamp true because if it doesn’t a knife with varying geometry would be almost impossible to get square. Maybe this is just my accuracy OCD coming out.

Thanks for the links. I’ll check them out in more detail. I have also read some threads regarding the cube you have referenced. I am going to look into that more as well.

Mark

[Mark]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions.

I use a Tilt Box for measuring angles. The manufacturer claims accuracy of +/- 0.1 but by their own admission 0.2 is more reflective of the accuracy that can be expected from this cube. Although the cube doesn’t have a reset feature I did recalibrate it last night before taking any measurements. I have my sharpener mounted to a granite base. I zeroed the cube on the front of the vise base as suggested. Out of curiosity I then checked the base and the cube remained zero. In moving forward I will always use the front of the vise base as my zero reference.

The following is what I came up with:

I misread your first comment and did not check the vise housing with the jaws open (out of curiosity I’m going to check the vise housing tonight when I get home), but rather I checked the empty jaws in the clamped position. I took a total of 8 readings on each side of the closed jaws doing my best to position the cube in the same orientation each time. These readings averaged out to 16.78 degrees on the left jaw and 16.54 degrees on the right jaw. I’m somewhat of an accuracy freak so I would have liked to see this difference even tighter, but given the accuracy limitations of the cube and possible error/variables in positioning I think 0.24 degrees of difference isn’t unreasonable???

Next, using a small piece of chamois, I clamped a small square (+/- 8″ x 12″) in the vise with the longer arm in the jaws  and the shorter arm extending up on the backside of the vise. The portion clamped in the vise only extended maybe 2 or 3 inches beyond the back of the vise to avoid as much flex or twisting as possible when applying and removing the magnetic cube. I tried clamping this without the chamois first to avoid any erroneous readings the chamois may introduce but there was some definite shift in the square without the chamois. Besides, using a piece of chamois or taping the blade (I usually use tape) of a knife is typically how I sharpen most knives. Here again I took 8 readings on each side of the square placing the cube on the vertical arm just above the horizontal arm. The left side averaged out to 0.92 degrees right of zero and the right side averaged out to 1.05 degrees right of zero showing the vertical arm of the square was in fact leaning to the right by an average of +/- 1.0 degree.

I then clamped an 8″ chefs knife in the vise which has a wide blade and consistent blade surface to be able to apply the cube and obtain relatively accurate/reliable readings. I took 5 readings on each side of the blade portion extending beyond the back of the vise. The left readings averaged out to 1.67 degrees showing the blade had to rotate left to be vertical. The right readings averaged out to 0.92 degrees showing the blade had to rotate right to be vertical. The opposite rotation makes sense to me as this is due to the taper of the blade from spine to edge. Laying this knife flat on the granite base the degree of taper near the handle averaged 3.25 degrees. At the mid point the average was 3.12 and at the tip 2.98 degrees. Using this information I assume the blade taper angle where the cube was placed is approximately 3.00 degrees. Applying half of this to the left reading of 1.67 it would appear the blade is only tilting +/- 0.17 degrees right. Applying the same logic to the right reading indicates the blade is tilting 0.58 degrees to the right. Ideally the difference to return to zero should be the same, but here again there are a number of things that could result in these two numbers being different. I would suggest that this difference is reasonable??? Is this close enough to be considered vertical?

My last test was with a Cold Steel Code 4 which does not have consistent blade geometry near the spine.

Sharpening this knife as well as a Cold Steel American Lawman was where I definitely noticed a wider bevel on the right side, but like I indicated in my original post I am seeing a larger right bevel of varying degree on all knives.

I mounted this knife in the vise with the chamois and took readings by attaching the cube to the vertical arm of the square. I then held the flat, wide portion of the arm vertically flat against the side of the blade with the cube facing me. I took four readings on each side of the blade trying to remain as consistent as possible in location and approach. Given the profile of the blade, the awkwardness of this and potential for not taken measurements exactly the same each time I am taking these results with a grain of salt. The four readings averaged 4.38 degrees on the left side of the blade indicating rotate to the left for zero and 6.31 degrees on the right side indicating rotate to the right to zero.

Hopefully you made it through this ok and understood what I am trying to convey. In all honesty I don’t know what any of this is telling me after writing this short novel because my head…and my fingers hurt. LOL But I certainly appreciate the feedback.

Mark

 

 

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