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Ultimate Stropping Setup\\Progression

Recent Forums Main Forum Stropping Ultimate Stropping Setup\\Progression

This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  sksharp 05/19/2018 at 8:32 am.

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  • #46291

    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 165

    What do you guys think is the ultimate setup\progression for an insanely smooth polished edge

    I have all the DLF’s, but was wondering if the Polycrystalline Emulsions, Polycrystalline Diamonds Sprays on Kangaroo leather would be used instead of the DLF’s

    My usual progression is up to 1500 diamonds-6u DLF

    1200-1600 Ceramics

    1.4u-.6u Ceramics

    Then the rest of the DLF’s to.1u

    My Ceramics are broke in so they do a very good job

    So do you guys think the DLF’s are worth the price for the results they produce?

    I am thinking of replacing the DLF’s with Polycrystalline Diamond Sprays on Kangaroo leather from .25u-.025u

     

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    JJ
    #46292

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 45
    • Replies: 1063

    My take is the DLFs are an abrasive stone just like the diamond stones, whetstones or the ceramic stones. The different abrasive mediums have there own distinct scratch pattern and abrasive quality associated with their grit or particle size.  The mediums can be mixed or used in conjunction in a progression when you determine how best to follow the particle size from coarse to fine in a order that gives you finer and smaller, shallower, scratches that are closer together.  Some of the abrasive mediums IMO don’t work really well together because their scratch pattern characteristics are too similar and redundant, and it’s a waste of time to use them together.  Ceramics and DLF each have their place.  I don’t know whether one is better than the other.  I think you should use the one that gives you the results you’re looking for.  To determine this you need to use both on enough knives to see the difference.  I think you can indeed get a very sharp polished edge without using the DLF’s.

    The leather strops I believe can and should be used last as a polishing medium following any progression of the abrasive mediums.  The strops IMO smooth and polish the surface flat and reflective due to the give of the substrate and the nature of how the abrasive applied to the leather can be compressed into the leather and in effect roll across the knife steel.  Due to this characteristic of the compressible substrate I don’t believe leather strops are a replacement for the DLFs and the other abrasive mediums with their solid non compressible backing.  I do think the leather strops enhance any surface they are use on, when used properly, (i.e, at the correct angle and correct pressure) and will give it an added feel of sharpness by smoothing the apex, bevel and shoulders.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #46293

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 498

    I’m in agreement with Marc. The diamond lapping films do not behave the same way that strops do because strops are compressible and the abrasives are not firmly embedded to the substrate. Strops are capable of producing an amazing scratch free polish, but this often requires a lot of passes and you run the risk of rounding the apex especially if you don’t compensate for the compression by making the angle more acute. Careful technique and patience can avoid this issue, but if you do round the edge it can be remedied by adding a micro-bevel. This helps if you find the edge lacks the bite / tooth that you desired and will still maintain the polished appearance.

    The diamond lapping films are like super fine stones. When used edge trailing, the edge retains a lot of tooth but will not cut as smoothly as a well stropped edge in my experience. These edges benefit from even just a few passes on a set of strops for maximum cutting performance. While these edges preform very well, several people have reported that the diamond films can’t seem to get a truly scratch free mirrored edge unless you switch to horizontal strokes. The results obtained this way are really nice looking and it doesn’t take a ton of strokes because the diamonds cut rapidly. The downside to this technique is that it has a detrimental affect on sharpness, so you are going to need a micro-bevel at the end to restore the apex.

    Are the diamond films worth the price? I say yes, because they give results that would take hours to get with other methods if you’re after that mirrored edge.

    Can you replace the diamond films with strops? Yes, but you’ll be spending more time to get the mirrored edge you’re after.

    I have diamond lapping films and an array of leather strops. I like them both and use them for different purposes, but if I had to give up one or the other I would keep the strops and ditch the diamond films. YMMV. I think I saw TCMeyer post that he would do the opposite.

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    #46315

    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 165

    I decided to do my Delica in ZDP189 to a mirror finish with all of my stropping media, but i couldn’t use my leather strops because they would hit the vise jaws when i raised the angle by 2 deg. So this was sharpened at 18 deg from 400-1500 diamonds, 1200\1600 ceramics, 1.4u\.6u ceramics, 6u DLF – .1u DLF. Really would have liked to get the leather strops on this. But it has a nice finish

    Not scratch free but a nice mirror. I really would have liked to use the strops.

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    #46325

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 45
    • Replies: 1063

    I have run into a similar angle problem when trying to strop.  I have learned to look at my initial angle setting and plan out if I’ll have the ability to follow my progression through to strop or if I’ll reach the limits of the WEPS.  I have moved the angle adjustment down 2º, right at the beginning, just after I clamped the knife, to verify I will be able to strop at the end.  I have widened my profile sharpening angle on a couple kitchen knives by 1º at the start so I could be able to finish with the strop. A couple times I had to strop with very light pressure at the same angle as I sharpened.  It does Ok if your careful.  Sometimes I found I could lower it only like 1/2º; better than nothing.  So now I try to take notice at the onset to plan it out.  It’s really only an issue when the knife is profiled at 15º or 16º depending on your model WEPS.  Sometimes I have overcome the issue by reclamping the knife higher in the jaws then resetting the angle guide rods, just to use the strops.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #46346

    sksharp
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 387

    When an edge is taken to .1 mic. edge trailing strokes then just stropping with bare leather or something like denim will de-burr and smooth out the cutting edge. It’s a technique that a lot of people use on straight razors. Push cuts require toothless or smooth cutting edges like straight razors. This will make the edge “feel” less sharp initially but in actuality will push cut much smoother. When doing this method just 3 to 5 passes with the strop done without to much pressure at the same angle as you sharpen with should be about right. A strop with very fine compound works as well and I recommend kangaroo leather.

    Are lapping films worth the money? It’s up to the individual. There are much cheaper ways I think considering how often the lapping films need to be replaced. I find the films can be cleaned a few times and I do get 2 or 3 times the life out of them that some others do but I may be using them differently to. Like shaptons, choseras, diamonds, natural, strops, ect. ect. until we try them for ourselves the answer to is it worth it can’t really be answered to an individual.

    The best edges that I can produce are all edge leading so the edge trailing strokes with the lapping films are a bit of a disadvantage in my opinion. They are quick but like all mediums have their strong points and their weak points.

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