Steel Specs and Use Spreadsheet?

[Drew]

Hey y’all, Drew again.

 

Just pulled the trigger on the PPIII. Thank you all on your feedback towards that decision.

Now I’m climbing down the rabbit hole of steel types, uses, and angle choices. I’m sure each of you have a cheat-sheet of commonly encountered steels and their properties. Have you all created a community-shared spreadsheet of individual knife models, their steel types, and comments as to the angle suggested for their uses?

 

If not, I’d be interested in brainstorming a way to do this. (Invite-only for adding data, but readable for all.)

 

Btw, me and the family are in the beginning of the last stages for packing and repairing the property for our late-August move, so please forgive me if I don’t respond quickly. I’ll have much more time in the beginning of October.

 

Sincerely,

Drew

1 user thanked author for this post.

wickededge

[Marc H]

Drew at one time there was a Sharpening Log of sorts in the “Knowledge Base” for this exact purpose.  It was accessible and updatable by Forum Members.  I did a review of what’s now included and offered in the “Knowledge Base” and I no longer see it included.

I personally make use of a spread sheet for exactly the reasons you mention above.  My records are for myself and not public.  I am trying to adapt my data to a Catalog Template with incorporated photographs but this I’m finding more difficult and tedious to put into practice.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Drew]

Lol, that does sound involved, especially going it solo. (And possibly addictive, depending on one’s personality…) It may take a few months, but I’d like to check into an easy solution. Maybe a Google Drive shared spreadsheet. I’ll bet the computer science dept at WSU or HSU could suggest an elegant solution.

 

Always more dreams than time.

[Drew]

Ps, if it’s no longer available, any idea who’s in charge of archiving for the forum? I’d be interested in that data.

[Marc H]

Drew let me help complicate this idea and introduce a reality check.  The settings I determined and recorded to achieve a sharp edge at a particular setting may not be the same settings another Wicked Edge user with the same model knife determines and uses to accomplish the same measured bevel angle.  The positions and angle I determine or create are relative positions and relative angles to my particular Wicked Edge, setup.  Nuances and subtle orientation and positional clamping differences may result in the same bevel angle with a slightly different profile.  It’s not black and white.  Particularly with hand crafted knives.  No two are exactly alike.   Each of us may employ different determining positional factors resulting in a slightly different knife edge.   The repeatability aspect of the wicked edge is relative and really only holds for the one system with the same users.  When you start introducing variables, different same model knives, different WE users and different same model Systems, then the mounting and positional specs are only approximations and suggestions.  These are still hand operated knife sharpeners with the human factor.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

• This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Marc H.

[Drew]

I dig that, but the data doesn’t have to reference the WES at all. Column headers like make, model, steel type, angle set, grit progression, use, and final impressions would be a useful QRG.

 

[Drew]

I do get what you’re saying, as much as I can at this stage. My mind says there has to be some data that’s applicable to all users. If I come to the realization later that recipes for sharp edges are really an illusion…. That’s going to lead me into a really dark, lonely place.

[Marc H]

Drew wrote:

I dig that, but the data doesn’t have to reference the WES at all. Column headers like make, model, steel type, angle set, grit progression, use, and final impressions would be a useful QRG.

I agree.  That’s pretty much everything without the clamping position and orientation.

It would be a large list.  There are lots of different knives.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[tcmeyer]

I checked the list for a number of knives when I began my foray into WEPS sharpening.  It really didn’t offer the technical answers for the questions I had.  It listed the knife, the type of steel and the angles and abrasives used.  It didn’t tell you if that sharpening provided the performance level needed.  Did it dull easily?  Did it tend to chip?  What was it used for?  It really just listed an angle and polish level which pleased the fellow doing the sharpening.

Generally, hard edges will hold an edge longer, but tend to chip more easily, so they prefer a more obtuse angle.  However, if they will see only light use, they can benefit from a more acute angle.  Knives which are less hard will tend to dull and dent easily, but are more easily sharpened.  Here too, acute angles will be deformed more easily.

Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.  Unless I recognize a need to do otherwise, I use 20 dps as a default.

I’ve used micro-bevels to install a toothier edge and to reduce the likelihood of chipping/denting in knives used for general work, but the more I see knives returned for subsequent sharpening, the less I am convinced of the efficacy of the micro-bevel in resisting edge damage.  Maybe a double-bevel would be more appropriate.

 

[Drew]

You’ve answered so many questions with just that one post… Those are some beautiful guidelines.

 

You know what? I’ll bet sitting down with the clients like a friend and explaining it the way you just did, (Back when I was starting out, a feller named Meyer put it to me this way: ..), telling them about the search for a perfect and elusive edge based on use, and bringing them in on the decision of what to try this time… It wouldn’t matter if it wasn’t quite right, the exploration would be theirs and yours. Each subsequent sharpening would consist of, “Alright Franklin, did it skitter over the cartilage, or is it still nicking into it? Did we get it, or do we need to back off a bit?”

 

Intimate may not be the right word in modern times, but personal and connected could make this profession stand out.

 

Not the answer I was expecting, but an even better solution than a spreadsheet. I appreciate it.

[Drew]

MarcH, indeed… See, that’s confused me about complex systems for years. Medicine’s based on the assumption that effects can be predicted in any example of a population, but we all know Docs that screwed things up, despite their confidence. I really want to respect your summary, and if your findings are accurate, I’m forcing myself to stop and listen: based on your experience, are there too many variables to make a community measurements and impressions record worthwhile? Is predictibility between users a self-soothing faith, or an achievable, repeatable end?

 

(I once saw a guy who had studied a combat style for a few years learn from his instructor that there was a completely separate, culturally unfamiliar, yet equally effective model and philosophy available to achieve the same ends. It broke this guy’s mind for a while. “If I’m vulnerable from this totally unexpected perspective, what’s the point?”)

I have a feeling you’ve run across something as mind breaking as that.

[Author]

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