Sharpening Intensive…

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

…..Here is a link to Murray Carters video explaining the three finger test

Leo Nav

little nervous and appropriately cautious.[/quote]

That is actually the whole key as to why it works so well. This test and the “pinch test” are key especially on the bench stones. These are the basics we have been talking about they happen first and then three finger throughout the process. 😉
I have had the pleasure of talking with Murray a few times, he is actually a pretty witty guy! 😆

[Gib Curry]

Sounds like you had a great day, Gib!

It was a good day. Any day sharpening for that long is …. tiring…. but, still, a very, very good day.

The basic notes were simple to outline. The practice is ongoing.

I was a bit nervous to have someone I know is really good, not just watching, but watching almost microscopically. And, with the purpose to see and correct mistakes. But, more, to see and enhance proper technique and understanding.

I’m hoping to get to spend as much time as I can with sharpeners better than I.

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Speaking of which, I’m looking forward to meeting Bob Nash in Eugene at the Oregon Knife Show (http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/Flyer%202014_03.png).

Anyone else from this Forum going to be there? Or the Seattle show a couple of weeks later?

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For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Josh]

Sounds interesting!

He likes to strop between each grit level. So, we typically did 10 strokes per side, then 8 strokes per side, then 5 strokes, then 2 strokes and then 1 stroke per side for 5 strokes, then strop. Inspect, repeat as necessary before moving on to net grit or next blade issue.

He give any reason for stropping between each grit level? A bit counterintuitive to me.[/quote]

Thanks for posting this Gib! Sounds like you had a great time! 🙂

I would tend to agree Curtis… In fact, I think the optimal way to remove the burr would be with the stones themselves. If you develop a burr and then keep bending it back and forth until it breaks surely this won’t be as sharp as one finished on a stone.

I try to “cut” my burr off with each grit stone before moving to the next step… I do this with edge leading passes and it works great, especially at the lower grits. I do find that keep chasing it once I get up to the 800-1k range, and it’s annoying!

I just don’t like to strop much because it makes my nice toothy edge not so toothy anymore 🙁

So Gib, how in the world did you get this arranged?! 🙂

Josh

[Geocyclist]

Hey Gib,

Thanks for the post. I think all of your points apply equally as well to the WEPS. The WEPS just makes the keeping a constant angle part easy. All the rest still requires attention to detail.

[Raleigh]

“If you do the three finger test on every single blade that comes into your hands you will intuitively know ….”

You better not try the three finger test on my straight razors Murry, or you’ll be changing out of your bathrobe to go get some liquid skin at Walgreens.

[Gib Curry]

Hey Gib,

Thanks for the post. I think all of your points apply equally as well to the WEPS. The WEPS just makes the keeping a constant angle part easy. All the rest still requires attention to detail.

I was counting on that being true. And, it was/is…..

~~~~

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Gib Curry]

I’m looking forward to meeting Bob Nash in Eugene at the Oregon Knife Show (http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/Flyer%202014_03.png).

Anyone else from this Forum going to be there? Or the Seattle show a couple of weeks later?

Cool. Haven’t been to a knife specific show before. Still just a bit overwhelmed by all my (relatively) newbie eyes beheld!!

First things first — I stayed within my budget!!

360 tables…. feeling a bit overwhelmed, I thought it would be a good “measuring stick” to see just how much of an amateur I really am….. turns out not so much as I might imagine. I seemed to be able to pretty much hold my own in every conversation I was in….. Not all, there were some tables of very rarified air, so to speak.

Those were the tables that really kept attracting me; though nearly every table fascinated me.

I attended three seminars Saturday morning: “Edge-U-Cation on Kitchen Cutlery”, “Micro-Examination of Knives” (Murray Carter) and “Sharpening of Knives”.

The kitchen cutlery seminar was very weak. The guy laid out a large set of Cutco’s, went through each one by name then said you could do all that with an 10″ chef and paring knife. “Thanks for coming. Goodbye.”

Somebody said, “Wait, we have questions!” He evaded almost every question.

For example, I asked, “You mentioned a slicing, a boning and a butcher knife, could you talk about the blade geometry and how that reflects in its job function in the kitchen?”

His answer, “Doesn’t matter, you can do it all with a chef’s knife and a paring knife.”

Weak. Just plain weak in effort and substance.

~~~~
The third seminar was knife sharpening. It was better. Some. The guy sharpens only by hand. Asked about both Chosera stones and fixed-angle sharpeners he said they were a waste of time for a professional sharpener.

Someone else (really, not me, but I felt like it) suggested he stop by the Wicked Edge booth and test the edges Bob puts out.

~~~~
Murray Carter’s Micro-Examination was the Second seminar and was excellent.

What do I remember? Try to only use natural light for blade examination.

Edge up: Tip Towards you
Edge down: Tip Towards you
Edge up: Heel Towards you
Edge down: Heel Towards you
Edge left: Tip Towards you
Edge right. Tip Towards you
Edge left: Heel Towards you
Edge right: Heel Towards you

Some sort of edge test for chips and/or microchips: edge tester, credit card, fingernail, etc.

Holding the knife in all these positions, backlit by natural light helps expose issues to the trained eye.

Don’t know how many times he repeated that when examining and micro-examining knives, the sharpners’ eyes are muscles that get stronger with use.

I had brought two knives and was able to find a microchip in one and a slight dog-leg bend to the left in another that I hadn’t seen before.

When Murray said, if you haven’t yet, get a jewelers’ loupe. Someone else (not me) shouted out that Bob Nash has a big box of good ones at the Wicked Edge booth!!

~~~~

As for the rest of the show, here are a few websites of tables I hung out with for a time…

http://stuckyknives.com/

http://www.miketyrecustomknives.com/folding-knives/

http://www.queencutlery.com/Home_2.php

https://www.facebook.com/GratefulEdge (Old hippies using EdgePro’s to sharpen at the show. They came to Bob’s booth several times and referred lots of people.)

http://www.threesistersforge.com/

I also attended an hour on metallurgy Friday morning put on by Crucible Industries (https://www.crucible.com/index.aspx). It was substantially over my head, but fascinating. I feel like I stuffed in my head a lot of breadth of understanding but not so much depth!!

But, it did lead to an interesting conversation with the operator, Jim, of Three Sisters Forge in Bend, Oregon. I used to live there, so that’s how the conversation started. After a while he asked me my interest in the show. I told him I’m somewhere on the range between advanced amateur and semi-pro sharpener. He instantly came back with, “How much to sharpen 50 blades at a time?”

Nearly knocked me over…. we continued an excellent conversation after that. Talking to him Sunday, he said there’s one guy ahead of me on his short list. I’m not sure I’m really setup to handle that kind of volume but it seems prudent to have the conversation if/when he calls!!

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So, all this added up to an excellent weekend. But, I haven’t even gotten to my favorite parts yet.

I got to hang out with Bob & Emily of Oldawan!! We’ve all either heard about or have experienced their knowledge, their attention to detail and their far above expectations customer service.

Well, I have to say, they are even nicer in person.

Got to have dinner with them Saturday evening; got to hang out in their booth and sharpen some cool knives; got to watch Bob mount a variety of knives in the vise and send out a bunch of wicked edges. (A great learning experience on my part; amazing. This time by itself, was to me, worth every penny and every moment invested in the weekend.)

My budget included a small purchase from Bob. (Thanks, again, for everything, Bob & Emily)

The budget also included a little bit (relatively) for a knife. Of all the knives I had been looking at only one haunted me late into the night and dreams Friday & Saturday. It’s a clean little two-bladed, lock back, Damascus whittler with the Wharncliffe blade I was hoping for. Made by Kershaw. Discontinued, so only 250 were made.

The guy I got it from said he hoped I wasn’t going to “actually use it.”

It would be far too wordy to try to describe a transaction and the whole scene I watched play out but it remains one of the outstanding memories. A visitor to the show had a knife he was trying to trade with a vendor. Pretty soon another vendor joined the fray with the three of them negotiating back and forth. Finally, they all agreed, shook hands and swapped knives. Based on what i could tell about other knives in their cases, I figure the deal represented nearly $15,000 in custom knives exchanging hands in that one transaction.

A fun and, for me, a very worthwhile time….

Anyone going to be at the upcoming Seattle show besides me?

Attachments:

• KershawDoubleCross.jpg

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Gib Curry]

…. and no one could explain why someone who runs a forge and someone who illegally copies something are both called forgers….. :blink:

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For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Mark76]

Great report, Gib! Thanks for sharing!

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Leo Barr]

Is you new knife laminated damascus? I think I would use it albeit carefully I have one knife that I won’t use & that is my Rockstead Un I bought it as an investment & as an object d’art plus it is too big to be an EDC and the silk handle would not make for a bushcraft knife.

Leo Nav

Attachments:

• 04Jun2013_1918_2014-04-16.jpg

[Josh]

Wow gib…. Just wow! Sounds like it was a phenomenal time!

Josh

[Josh]

I’m curious… Where was the official wicked edge booth?! Im jk, I know you guys couldn’t at every show clay or you would never have time to sell stuff! But I think clay could have taught that sharpening class easily and people would have learned something… And would have definitely seen some edges that they could always seek to live up to!

Josh

[Gib Curry]

I’m curious… Where was the official wicked edge booth?! Im jk, I know you guys couldn’t at every show clay or you would never have time to sell stuff! But I think clay could have taught that sharpening class easily and people would have learned something… And would have definitely seen some edges that they could always seek to live up to!

Josh

Wow gib…. Just wow! Sounds like it was a phenomenal time!

Josh

It was, from my kid-in-a-candy-shop eyes, an excellent weekend. I, personally, gained a lot of confidence. That alone was worth the price of admission….

I know some of the vendors seemed busy and others not so much, so I don’t know how “successful” the show was from that standpoint.

The “official” Wicked Edge booth? Does Oldawan with Bob & Emily count?

The kitchen cutlery class, I (any of us here) could have taught and I had more questions than answers!! That is both sad and hilarious.

The sharpening class? I think most of those on this forum could have taught a more engaging and informational seminar about the theory and the intricacies of sharpening. And many could easily have matched his hand-honed edges — and then taken it to the stratosphere.

I don’t know if I could match this guys edges free hand, but, then, I don’t see Choseras and fixed-angle devices a waste of my time! B)

Having watched a couple of Murray Carter’s videos this week, he may feel the same way… keep it simple: two double-sided water stones and a strop. He says everything else you try to add to your repertoire simply adds potential inaccuracy in your sharpening.

I tend to prefer having more options.

~~~~

I’ll post any other random thoughts and impressions if they seem relevant.

For example, I was interested to see that the tables that most closely resembled Cutlery Corner’s deep discount on cheap knives weren’t selling cheap knock-offs they were actually selling real Kershaws.

A KERSHAW LEEK KEN ONION 1660CB for $35-$55. A KERSHAW CROWN 316OX LINERLOCK for $5.00.

I sort of regret not getting one of those Leeks but they are on eBay for under $75.

I bought 5 of the Crown’s — $25.00 total. I’m going to dull one up and send it back to Kershaw for sharpening. I’m going to sharpen one myself. Along with a factory edge, it will be nice to have three edge comparisons. It’s hollow-ground 8Cr13MoV stainless steel. The two extra are for practice and/or give-away.

The table right across from Oldawan sold stacks & stacks & stacks of the $5.00 Kershaw’s.

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Gib,
I so wish I could have been there with you! Sounds like it was everything a knife nut could of hoped for!
Murray Carter is definitely against anything that is not a water stone. I have heard him say on you tube “more power to those who want to sub micron sharpen”, but he believes his way is the most bang for the buck and time wise.
I have learned his way of sharpening and for $100. worth of stones he is on to something in that frame of thinking. You can sharpen a whole lot of knives for cheap and quick with his method. He learned in rural Japan so he had to keep prices down and turn around knives quick to stay afloat. His six steps is something I think all sharpeners can use. He passes down technique that has worked for hundreds of years.
The only place I really disagree with him is I do love my WE!!!! That said I’m also very happy to have learned his technique. Which is way different then I learned as a butcher many moons ago?
Having dinner with Bob and Emily sounds like that was just the dessert to the whole event!! I have come to have the highest respect for Bob as a person and a business man. I think if you like old school ways of doing business and you like customer service then you are going to love Bob!!!
Gib thanks again for such a great report!!!!

[Josh]

Gib,
I so wish I could have been there with you! Sounds like it was everything a knife nut could of hoped for!
Murray Carter is definitely against anything that is not a water stone. I have heard him say on you tube “more power to those who want to sub micron sharpen”, but he believes his way is the most bang for the buck and time wise.
I have learned his way of sharpening and for $100. worth of stones he is on to something in that frame of thinking. You can sharpen a whole lot of knives for cheap and quick with his method. He learned in rural Japan so he had to keep prices down and turn around knives quick to stay afloat. His six steps is something I think all sharpeners can use. He passes down technique that has worked for hundreds of years.
The only place I really disagree with him is I do love my WE!!!! That said I’m also very happy to have learned his technique. Which is way different then I learned as a butcher many moons ago?
Having dinner with Bob and Emily sounds like that was just the dessert to the whole event!! I have come to have the highest respect for Bob as a person and a business man. I think if you like old school ways of doing business and you like customer service then you are going to love Bob!!!
Gib thanks again for such a great report!!!!

+1 for Bob and Emily!

So I’m curious… What is the point of the six step sharpening process? Half of those are examining the knife… Can’t you just do that quickly without having to turn it every which direction? I am just wondering how necessary this is, especially if you cut directly into a stone first before sharpening (unless it’s badly nicked up). I am very interested in his method though! Seems like he is definitely on to something for quick edges… How long does it take on average eamon?

Josh

[Author]

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