Shapton vs. Chosera WEPS Stones – The Great Debate

[Larry]

I am a little lost, what do you accomplish by reversing the paddle arms?

Lucky

[Dan]

If you reverse the paddle arms, the screws in the clamps no longer drop into the little indexing dents in the crossbar. That lets you set the angle in a fully-adjustable way, to get that last tenth-degree just right. Doesn’t matter so much with the diamond plates since they’re all the same thickness (more or less) but when you start using non-standard paddles (like the waterstones) you need to be able to make that adjustment to keep the angle identical.

[Dan]

Dang, and talk about fast work by USPS! Ken got the stones headed my way this past Saturday afternoon, and they showed up in last evening’s mail already, I’m impressed!

I’ll be giving them a first try this evening after work!

[David]

What do you guys think is the best 2 stone combo for coming off the ceramics? Or is it best to come off the 1k diamonds?

[Dan]

Well, after quite a bit of discussion with Ken and Tom, I decided on a 1K/2K pairing for coming straight off of the 1K diamonds. The 1K Shapton is the same grit size but cuts finer due to it’s abrasive agent, which replaces and smooths out the scratch pattern from the diamonds then the 2K refines that pattern.

[Aaron Smith]

So do you no longer feel the ceramics are necessary since you have the Shaptons?

[Dan]

Correct, at least with this particular progression. With the ceramics, you might be able to start off at a higher grit, say run a 2k/5k pairing and end up with a finer finish. I’ve never used the WEPS ceramics, so I really couldn’t make any substantive suggestions that way, honestly. I just chose my pair to start off of where my ProPack left off.

[Jende Industries]

So do you no longer feel the ceramics are necessary since you have the Shaptons?

Every sharpening question is easily answered “It Depends” 😛

And it really does – I personally feel that if you are going to stop at the 1600 WEPS ceramic level, you do not need Shaptons or Choseras.

I also feel that if you get the 5K Shapton, then you really should get the 1500 or 2K Shapton to proceed it, which tends to replace the ceramics. (don’t forget I’m spoiled since I pretty much have everything to choose from)

But what really influences the decision for me is that I know I am going to go to 5K or above, and it makes more sense to me to stay within a single system after the WEPS diamonds. Yes, you can mix and match with success, but I find the the synergy of using a singly designed system like the Choseras or Shaptons really makes getting to the final goal much easier – especially when going to the 10 Chosera or 30K Shapton. (I’m also a perfectionist)

On a more advanced note, you have different edges from different stones – the Shaptons produce a certain edge at a given grit which is going to be different than the Choseras, and different still form the WEPS ceramics. There is no universal winner in this equation, either – all three have their places in a specific progression for a specific occasion.

[Dan]

Had a chance to try out the Shaptons over the weekend! I was at an activity for our church’s kids program, taking family portrait shots for the people that showed up, and one of the ladies there was trying to slice up chilled caramel apples with a really, REALLY dead 6″ or so inexpensive kitchen knife. Had the WEPS in my truck (because I’m crazy like that and usually have SOME sharpening gear with me, although it’d usually be the Kalamazoo there) so I grabbed it and put an edge on the blade. Three of the other guys that were there are now very interested as well, and the edge came off the Shaptons and strops in great shape. I’m looking forward to having the cash for the 5k/8k pair as well. So far I’m very impressed. They cut smoothly, leave a beautifully consistent scratch pattern, and the feel is great!

Dumb question, though, is anyone else getting kind of a binding, “sticking at the corners” feeling from the pivots? It’s almost like the little universals are twisting against each other and not turning smoothly. Think I might need to add a dab of high-pressure grease to the joints.

[Doug Williams]

The Shaptons sound nice. But I don’t see them on the WEPS website. How much are they and how are they paired up on the paddles? Or can you order the grits that you want on each side of the paddle?

[Dan]

They should be available on the site here very shortly! I ordered mine directly from Ken, though. Ordered the blank paddles from the WEPS guys, and had them sent straight to Ken to be fitted with the stones. He has the individual stones listed on his website over at CKTG, you can pick whatever pairing on a paddle set you like. I chose mine suitable to come off of the 1k diamonds and move up through 2k Shapton, with the intent of adding a 5K and 8K, then using the leather strops with the compounds to finish it up, and set up for even higher stropping if I should end up wanting to.

[wickededge]

A drop of Microlon goes a long way in those joints. Ultimately we need to revisit the design to prevent the binding that occurs when the rod is laid down and rotated totally perpendicular to the Base Rod. I think the Collar needs a slightly different shape.

Had a chance to try out the Shaptons over the weekend! I was at an activity for our church’s kids program, taking family portrait shots for the people that showed up, and one of the ladies there was trying to slice up chilled caramel apples with a really, REALLY dead 6″ or so inexpensive kitchen knife. Had the WEPS in my truck (because I’m crazy like that and usually have SOME sharpening gear with me, although it’d usually be the Kalamazoo there) so I grabbed it and put an edge on the blade. Three of the other guys that were there are now very interested as well, and the edge came off the Shaptons and strops in great shape. I’m looking forward to having the cash for the 5k/8k pair as well. So far I’m very impressed. They cut smoothly, leave a beautifully consistent scratch pattern, and the feel is great!

Dumb question, though, is anyone else getting kind of a binding, “sticking at the corners” feeling from the pivots? It’s almost like the little universals are twisting against each other and not turning smoothly. Think I might need to add a dab of high-pressure grease to the joints.

-Clay

[Dan]

I’ll add a drop of lubricant, I think. I have some very good high-pressure firearms grease that should smooth that up nicely. I don’t have any issue with them having to be laid down a specific way, the only time it bugs me is when I’m trying to sharpen, and it feels like the knuckles are fighting me making a smooth sweep of the edge. I really need to make the motion very slowly while I look at the joint itself to see exactly what surfaces are interfering, I might take the joints apart and round the corners to smooth things out a bit if the grease doesn’t do the trick. It’s almost like there’s just enough play in the joint that it’s not rotating smoothly on the pivot rod, but is rotating on the rod and sliding on the opposing surface at the same time.

Doesn’t seem to effect the sharpening accuracy at all, just feels kinda nasty.

[wickededge]

Please keep me posted!

-Clay

[Marion]

Snip

Dumb question, though, is anyone else getting kind of a binding, “sticking at the corners” feeling from the pivots? It’s almost like the little universals are twisting against each other and not turning smoothly. Think I might need to add a dab of high-pressure grease to the joints.

I was discussing this issue/problem with Bob at WE last week. I tend to think that part of the problem is that the length of the black articulation joint needs to be just a touch longer than the horizontal radius of the joint in the blue angle guage. The axil in the Blue angle guage is ofset into the verticle, the black articulators length is fine when it is in the upper region of the blue radius, but when you set the armatures/rods down to change stones or do something, make an adjustment ect., the armature binds, because the rods don’t quite have enough clearance to move freely in the horizontal. If the rods formed a 90deg angle when laying down you would not see/feel as much binding. Of course that is my armchair engineering of the issue.

… of course some teflon “Super Lube” could fix the problem right up.

I love the WE. My left arm is now bald from the wrist to almost my elbow!

[Author]

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