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Setting Angle (Bar Markings vs Angle Cube)

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  • #42274
    Eric F
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 9

    I just got a WE130 and am trying to figure out how exactly to set the angle and am running into a weird problem.  I first align the rod such that the inner edge of L bracket is at the line going through the 15 (… the 1|5 line).  Which, theoretically, should be 15 degrees.  I then attach the angle cube to the stone and it shows 14 degrees.  Is this normal?  I was expecting a little off (like < .5 or so, something that I could account for with the micro adjustment).  The only way I can seem to get 15 is to move the L back to what I thought was the 14 mark…. Thoughts?

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    #42275
    Alan
    Participant
    • Topics: 15
    • Replies: 206

    Welcome, Eric, to our great forum!  You have a nice sharpener there with that WE130.

    The height of the blade edge above the jaws makes all the difference.  The higher the blade edge is above the jaws, the lower the angle will be.  The markings on the degree bar get you in the ballpark.  If the edge of your blade sits 5/8″ above the jaws, then the angle cube should closely match your setting on degree bar.

    I personally pay little attention myself to the degree bar, except to get my desired angle somewhat close.  The angle cube will tell you the actual angle, regardless of any knife you sharpen.

    Have fun with your new WE sharpener, and again welcome!

    Alan

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    #42277
    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 929

    Alan is totally correct. The angle guides are calibrated to a blade that sits 5/8″ above the clamp. If your blade sits higher or lower than that, the angle markings will not be accurate. This is totally normal. Using the angle cube is the best way to measure the sharpening angle and I also ignore the degree bar settings except when recording how I setup the knife for future sharpening.

    7 users thanked author for this post.
    #42278
    Eric F
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 9

    Ah…. that makes sense….  I didn’t even think about that.

    Thanks!

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    #42279
    Marc H
    Moderator
    • Topics: 75
    • Replies: 2744

    Eric, Welcome to the forum.  Read this a couple times.  After you sharpen a few knives this may be clearer to you.

    I suggest you start with your knife clamped in a position you believe is proper. Use the inscribed angles on the square degree bar as a suggested guide, only.  Place the stone you want to start with, on the angle guide rod. Then position the stone on the clamped knife blade bevel basically centered over the jaw, fore and aft, with the “zeroed” angle cube magnetically attached to the outside of the diamond stone.  (Use a similar position of the attached magnetic angle cube every time you take an angle reading for consistency).  Then read the angle from the angle cube, you have previously “zeroed“.  Use the “L” brackets position to get close to the angle you want to apply to your knife’s bevel, ignoring the inscribed angle numbers on the square degree bar, only using them as a guide to show you the direction for increasing or decreasing your angle setting.   Then, fine tune the angle to your precise angle by using the micro-adjustment screws.  You will learn as you use the WEPS more that starting with at least 1/4″ of threads exposed between the “L” bracket and the ball joint should give you enough lead way to increase or decrease the micro setting to get you right on your mark.  That 1/4″ of exposed ball joint screw threads backed off into the “L” bracket should give you close to 1/2º increase and turning the micro adjust screw in closer to decrease the set angle, exposing another 1/4″ won’t expose so much thread as to make the ball joint unstable or insecure in the “L” bracket due to too much threads exposed.

    If you need to turn the micro-adjustment screw inward, to decrease the angle cube reading to your desired angle setting, exposing almost all the ball joint screw threads may make the angle guide rod connection to the “L” bracket unstable, while using your sharpening stones.  In this situation it’s better to move the “L” bracket in closer to the vice, readjusting the micro-adjustment screw to expose about 1/4″ of threads, then check your angle cube and start your fine adjustments again.

    You may very well find the left “L” bracket inscribed angle settings on the square degree bar is a different angle then the right “L” bracket inscribed angle setting on the square degree bar.  That doesn’t matter as long as your Zeroed Angle Cube indicates your left and right Guide rod settings are the same angle reading.  You may even find that as you use the sharpie to find your “sweet spot” clamping position, that you have to do some micro-adjusting in or out with the screw and sometimes you may even have to move the “L” bracket inscribed angle position in or out, (i.e., up or down an angle mark), to allow for the proper clamping position adjustment.

    I have even experienced where I lacked enough ball joint exposed screw thread length, (i.e., usually couldn’t increase the angle enough by backing in the threads), to make my fine adjustment, when I switched to a different grit stone while following my sharpening stone progression.  So I had to move the prior “L” bracket position on the square degree bar to an increased angle position, then repositioned the ball joint screw, back to a closer position, with more threads exposed again, to allow for proper micro angle adjustment.  You’ll learn you have to manipulate the WEPS settings to achieve your desired results.  There’s nothing wrong going on. It’s a tool jig and you’re adjusting it to best work for you.  Set up the WEPS to do what you want it to do for you.  Don’t change what you want to do to accommodate the WEPS settings.

    I often thought that the angle increments would be better inscribed with A, B, C, D, etc instead of angle degrees because they are really arbitrary in all but the most perfect knife positions, 5/8″ above the jaws.  The degree bar is angle inscribed because it gets you roughly in the ball park and suggests a good position to start your set-up with your “L” brackets.  Also, the same square degree bar is use with the WEPS WE100 that lacks micro adjustment capability.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #42281
    Eric F
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 9

    Thanks!

    #42284
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Welcome to the forum, Eric! And I think your question has been answered already, but if you have any more questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #44692
    Gazillion
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 24

    Good evening Eric F.,

    Thank you for asking this question, I had the same question but just hadn’t had time to ask in the forum.

    Everyone else, thank you for the descriptive, intellectual answers, they were very insightful.

    Derek

     

    I just got a WE130 and am trying to figure out how exactly to set the angle and am running into a weird problem. I first align the rod such that the inner edge of L bracket is at the line going through the 15 (… the 1|5 line). Which, theoretically, should be 15 degrees. I then attach the angle cube to the stone and it shows 14 degrees. Is this normal? I was expecting a little off (like < .5 or so, something that I could account for with the micro adjustment). The only way I can seem to get 15 is to move the L back to what I thought was the 14 mark…. Thoughts?

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #45036
    JKingRPh
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 9

    I just tried out my Gen 3 Pro today.  I found with a large chef’s knife the markings were way off.  To get a 20 degree angle I set the marked gauge to 25 degrees then used an angle cube and the fine adjustment to tune to 20 degrees.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #45056
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2938

    I just tried out my Gen 3 Pro today. I found with a large chef’s knife the markings were way off. To get a 20 degree angle I set the marked gauge to 25 degrees then used an angle cube and the fine adjustment to tune to 20 degrees.

    How high above the clamp does the edge of the knife sit?

    -Clay

    #45057
    Marc H
    Moderator
    • Topics: 75
    • Replies: 2744

    JKing here’s my experience for the same situation you experienced.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #45065
    JKingRPh
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 9

    I just tried out my Gen 3 Pro today. I found with a large chef’s knife the markings were way off. To get a 20 degree angle I set the marked gauge to 25 degrees then used an angle cube and the fine adjustment to tune to 20 degrees.

    How high above the clamp does the edge of the knife sit?[/quote

    I am not absolutely sure as it has been a few days and everything is put away for now, but I’m guessing around 1 1/2 inches.  The blade width in this old set of knives runs from around 3/4″ for a small paring knife size to probably close to 2 1/2 ” for the larger chef’s knife, with various widths in between.   At this point in my experience I am thinking it best to use a marker and match the bevel then use an angle cube  to match the sides( so I will slowly get both sides of the bevel matching, remembering I am working with nearly 45 years of hand sharpening and do not want to remove too much metal just to have things perfect, just want good, sharp, and durable edges)

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