progression, strokes, and pressure

[Readheads]

Jeez, that sounds like a bit of work for touch up (from setup to teardown). I have the field model cause it breaks down into a small case.  I do not leave a setup ready to go in my kitchen.

Have you considered a ceramic sharpening steel for touch up since you are really just straightening the edge during touch up.  Of course it reintroduces the challenge of finding/holding the right angle over the full knife edge. I have been pretty vigorous over the years with my steel sharpening steel using vey light pressure (due to its aggressive ripping nature). I feel that focus on listening and feeling while steeling goes a long way for a 30 second touch up.

I am looking at a pair of ceramic steels from Jende (who participates in this forum) which he says are approx. 1200 and 1600 grits respectively.  The set of 2 goes for $69 which is a real deal in my opinion.

BTW, what do find is the best tomato forum to share growing info ?

 

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[cbwx34]

Readheads wrote:

Jeez, that sounds like a bit of work for touch up (from setup to teardown). I have the field model cause it breaks down into a small case. I do not leave a setup ready to go in my kitchen. Have you considered a ceramic sharpening steel for touch up since you are really just straightening the edge during touch up. Of course it reintroduces the challenge of finding/holding the right angle over the full knife edge. I have been pretty vigorous over the years with my steel sharpening steel using vey light pressure (due to its aggressive ripping nature). I feel that focus on listening and feeling while steeling goes a long way for a 30 second touch up. I am looking at a pair of ceramic steels from Jende (who participates in this forum) which he says are approx. 1200 and 1600 grits respectively. The set of 2 goes for $69 which is a real deal in my opinion. 

Good post.  I use a ceramic to keep most kitchen knives at peak performance.  Haven’t tried Jende’s… I’ve found the Idahone ceramics to be of high quality.

BTW, you probably know this already but for those who don’t, a ceramic doesn’t really straighten the edge like a traditional steel, it sharpens because it removes metal.

I’ve found the best way for me to find the angle is to start at a lower angle on the ceramic, then gently move it back and forth while raising the angle until I feel the edge contact the rod.  One or two strokes per side will bring an edge back.  Even at a higher angle though, it seems to have little effect in cutting performance.

[Anonymous]

Readheads,

I am not sure who you are talking too. the reason I ask is that I said a touch up takes a few minutes..  You said ” Jeez, that’s seems like a lot of work for a touch up”

Yesterday I received a low angle adaptor and took my two 18* degree kitchen knives and re profiled them to 10* degrees. I know they are now extremely sharp and know I will need to touch them up more often… that is not a problem , because I have nothing but time.. IM conscious of the edge when terminating the slice, and I take care of the edge that I have established.

This procedure that I use is the evolution of knowing nothing. and going to knowing something. I would never touch anything hard to one of my edges with a free hand motion. a single steel stroke at the wrong free hand angle will bend my 10* degree edge, and ruin what I’ve done with it.. That’s just me. I would never consider touching one of my knives’ edge, free hand. I can cut a tomato with such accuracy and can make constant see through slices if I want. I can get 400 slices out of a tomato,  if I wanted too. My knives are now predictable and wickedly sharp. After 71 years of life, its nice to know what a sharp knife actually is

 

Here is a suggestion , : rather than assuming that you are talking to me,, either quote the person you are addressing , or mention their name .

[tcmeyer]

I keep my kitchen knives at 20 degrees and I know that only a few could stand up to such acute inclusive angles.  Those are the ones which are particularly hard.  Soft steels will tend to deform (as opposed to wear) on contact under pressure with harder surfaces, like bone or granite, or contact with another knife edge.  Viewed under even my 50X microscope, such deformations (dents) appear as “saddles” on the edge.  Not chips or continuous wear along an edge.  The few harder knives I have simply don’t seem to do that.  For instance, my ZDP Delica (HRC64) or my set of Wuesthof steak knives, (which I can use on Corelle plates for a year between sharpenings) never seem to get these dents.  I can’t imagine how the softer ones would survive with 10 dps edges.

I was told by a butcher years ago that he used a steel to raise a burr for a toothy edge.  I’ve since looked at one of my knives after using a steel and couldn’t see anything resembling a burr.  It looked more like a burnished edge than one which had been filed or stoned.  I have a white ceramic rod, about 8″ long by 1″ diameter and it certainly seems to help, but the edge doesn’t look like much.  Maybe there’s a technique I’m not getting.  Or maybe I’m using it when it’s too late to do any good.

1 user thanked author for this post.

wickededge

[Readheads]

ET, when I click “reply” on your specific post I am assuming that the reference to your post remains intact.  If that is NOT the way not works then please tell me.

[Readheads]

cbwx34 wrote:

Readheads wrote:

Jeez, that sounds like a bit of work for touch up (from setup to teardown). I have the field model cause it breaks down into a small case. I do not leave a setup ready to go in my kitchen. Have you considered a ceramic sharpening steel for touch up since you are really just straightening the edge during touch up. Of course it reintroduces the challenge of finding/holding the right angle over the full knife edge. I have been pretty vigorous over the years with my steel sharpening steel using vey light pressure (due to its aggressive ripping nature). I feel that focus on listening and feeling while steeling goes a long way for a 30 second touch up. I am looking at a pair of ceramic steels from Jende (who participates in this forum) which he says are approx. 1200 and 1600 grits respectively. The set of 2 goes for $69 which is a real deal in my opinion.

Good post. I use a ceramic to keep most kitchen knives at peak performance. Haven’t tried Jende’s… I’ve found the Idahone ceramics to be of high quality. BTW, you probably know this already but for those who don’t, a ceramic doesn’t really straighten the edge like a traditional steel, it sharpens because it removes metal. I’ve found the best way for me to find the angle is to start at a lower angle on the ceramic, then gently move it back and forth while raising the angle until I feel the edge contact the rod. One or two strokes per side will bring an edge back. Even at a higher angle though, it seems to have little effect in cutting performance.

I tried clicking the “quote” link instead of the “reply” link in your post.

Not to raise a new topic, but why would a ceramic steel not be able to straighten the edge like a steel steel.  It is because the ceramic is so much harder that it just removes the folded over part of the edge (like starting the sharpening process vs. straightening).  It is important to me because then I do not want a ceramic steel.  My steel steel can do wonders with straightening (real fast).

[cbwx34]

Readheads:  A ceramic removes metal because it’s abrasive… basically no different than if you ran your knife across a fine sharpening stone.  A steel steel burnishes and straightens the edge (although a ‘ribbed’ steel can tear off some fatigued metal).  For me the ceramic works better I think because instead of working with “fatigued” steel, it removes it.

tcmeyer:  the technique I use is to raise the knife just above the sharpening angle, and one or two light strokes per side, alternating sides, should bring the edge back.  When it no longer does, then it gets resharpened.

[Mikedoh]

I do similar to cb, except I use the fine stones on the Spyderco sharpmaker, and 10 or less light strokes per side on wetted stone.

1 user thanked author for this post.

cbwx34

[Anonymous]

Readheads wrote:

ET, when I click “reply” on your specific post I am assuming that the reference to your post remains intact. If that is NOT the way not works then please tell me.

No Readheads, there is no reference to your implied post, it just opens a respond field in the path looks like this > Reply To: progression, strokes, and pressure

If you want to reference a specific post either hit the quote tab next to the reply tab, or type in a salutation like ET or Bill first.

Hitting the quote tab will post the actual text and author of the  post you are answering.

[Anonymous]

I own a Spyderco sharpmaker, its the one I’ve used before the WEPS. After identifying the problem with variable angles when hand holding a knife, the fact that the stones are placed at one of two specific angles, does not guarantee the actual contact angle to the stone will be that angle. Just going from one side of the sharpmaker to the other can change is angle… While cost is not always the bottom line, it is a discriminator. AS an engineer , Ive identified my short coming when it comes to knife sharpening, and found that consistent angle strokes are the key to wicked sharp knives… I spent 50 dollars on the Sharpmaker, thought the locked in angle of the tri- angle stones would address my shortcoming, but again, If I’m holding a knife in my hand, I can not guarantee the angle stroke  repeatability. I can not ever see me using my sharpmaker on another knife.

So for me, the sharpmaker falls into one of my life lessons… that is ” I can not afford to buy something too cheap. I spent 50 dollars to do a job, that did not live up to my expectations.. I gave it enough time and research. I then found the WEPS… with 900 dollars invested, I thought I might be insane.  Or my drugs were clouding my judgment…

I have to say, I wasted 50 dollars on the sharpmaker, and found that the WEPS is worth every penny. I wish I had this 55 years ago… While the cost of the WEPS is very prohibitive for many with kids looking at college, Daughters wanting the nice wedding, etc, but for me, all that stuff is behind me. and for once, I have a truly wicked sharp set of knives, and know I can maintain them for the rest of my life.

Bill aka ET

1 user thanked author for this post.

Alan

[Readheads]

cbwx34 wrote:

Readheads: A ceramic removes metal because it’s abrasive… basically no different than if you ran your knife across a fine sharpening stone. A steel steel burnishes and straightens the edge (although a ‘ribbed’ steel can tear off some fatigued metal). For me the ceramic works better I think because instead of working with “fatigued” steel, it removes it. tcmeyer: the technique I use is to raise the knife just above the sharpening angle, and one or two light strokes per side, alternating sides, should bring the edge back. When it no longer does, then it gets resharpened.

 

Most steel steels I’ve seen have some level of ribbing.  Are you saying there are some totally without ribs ?

 

[cbwx34]

Readheads wrote:

cbwx34 wrote:

Readheads: A ceramic removes metal because it’s abrasive… basically no different than if you ran your knife across a fine sharpening stone. A steel steel burnishes and straightens the edge (although a ‘ribbed’ steel can tear off some fatigued metal). For me the ceramic works better I think because instead of working with “fatigued” steel, it removes it. tcmeyer: the technique I use is to raise the knife just above the sharpening angle, and one or two light strokes per side, alternating sides, should bring the edge back. When it no longer does, then it gets resharpened.

Most steel steels I’ve seen have some level of ribbing. Are you saying there are some totally without ribs ?

Yes.  You’re right… most steels that come with sets are ribbed (grooved might be a better word), but there are some made that are smooth.  Here’s a bit of info you might find of interest…

http://zknives.com/knives/sharpening/steeling.shtml

 

Edit: here’s what a ceramic can do…

 

2 users thanked author for this post.

wickededge, CliffCurry

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