Problem with all stones

[RLDubbya]

Problem Name: Lack of Stone Adhesion to blank

Short Description: Stones – the actual diamond coated metal plates – are all falling off the plastic holders (blanks).

Scope of Problem: All diamond grades, ultra-coarse excepted. The microfine ceramics. All glass platens used for lapping film. NOTE: scope might be larger. For example, I do not own the super fine ceramics, the ultracoarse diamonds, any of the water stones (Chosera, Shapton), nor any of the curved stones.

Long Description & Details:  I had experienced a glass platen loosening up and falling off within a couple days of getting my WEPS. I didn’t say anything then, figuring it was probably just that one particular item. So, I glued it back together using a gap-filling, medium dry rate (15-25 sec) CA. Then I had a diamond stone fall off; then another glass platen; then all my glass platens, and finally all my stones. There seems to be a bond degradation devil at play with this: the platens do not suddenly and spontaneously fall off in the same way that the garage burned suddenly and spontaneously when I was a little kid playing out back (honest, it just started to burn), but rather I am feeling the platens get “loose” and “wiggly” in the plastic mounts. I then pay close attention to them, and so far have always stopped using them in time and just pulled them off the plastic, no tools required.

Potential Causative Factors: Might be related to my use of Simple Green. I have not experimented directly with this, yet – however, I am going to sub in Dawn Liquid for the Simple Green today, and continue using the Dawn. I’m sure that there are at least some platens which have not fallen off at this time; so I’ll see what happens. I realize that this is not a great test, because the bond degradation might have started already and may continue / be revived by any water.

Notes: I used the Simple Green while sharpening, much as Wayne Goddard recommends in his book on knives. The idea is twofold: one, the SG has some lubrication properties that carries away some of the metal dust and prevents wear to the stones – I don’t know whether this is true, but I can feel a huge difference between dry stones and stones with SG applied. Secondly, using a little bit of SG during sharpening keeps the stones clean.

I’ve tried applying the SG via a spray bottle, and spritzing the stone, then shaking off the excess. I’ve also tried keeping a clean piece of cloth, getting it wet with the SG solution, and painting the stone. This latter approach was designed to minimize overuse of the liquid. It didn’t help.

I have to wonder, however, if the Simple Green solution gets under the edge of the metal / glass, and starts to degrade the bond; as the bond degrades from the outer edge, more of a gap is created, so the next time SG is applied, even more gets under the platen…until finally the platen falls off.

I was just thinking that I’m pretty lucky I haven’t had a diamond stone fall off with no warning while I really going fast and hard. That could not only damage the blade, but it could cause my fingers to drop, hard, onto the sharp edge.  Anyhow, I will stop using the SG.

As somebody with advanced terminal cancer, there will be dark days when I complain about things you say for no apparent reason. Please consider this my apology in advance for such times. There will be days that what I say is clearly wrong, making no sense: on these days I will often be argumentative. Please do not "let me slide" at such times, but rather call me out, point out what is factually wrong, and demand I explain my position. Please also consider this my apology in advance for such times.

[Snecx]

It is most likely Simple Green. I had no issue with any of my stones, until I wash them with SG. Upon washing my 1500/glass paddles, I had the glass come off. Once it’s dry, I just stick the glass back onto the double sided tape on the paddle and it’s good as new.

Using soapy water is a common trick used in the application of stickers. It allows the sticky side to slide freely until you squeeze the soapy water off.

Given the application I think it’s behaving properly, but I could be wrong.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Mark76, RLDubbya

[RLDubbya]

Snecx wrote:

It is most likely Simple Green. I had no issue with any of my stones, until I wash them with SG. Upon washing my 1500/glass paddles, I had the glass come off. Once it’s dry, I just stick the glass back onto the double sided tape on the paddle and it’s good as new. Using soapy water is a common trick used in the application of stickers. It allows the sticky side to slide freely until you squeeze the soapy water off. Given the application I think it’s behaving properly, but I could be wrong.

I think that has to be it; I noticed in the cleaning thread that Clay was going to try SG, but he did not post any follow-up. I should have asked – there’s no real harm done, except I think that I might have to replace the tape at some point.

I hope anybody who is thinking of using SG for either sharpening or cleaning sees this thread first.  Might as well save somebody the surprise.

I’ve found time to sharpen one knife today, which had a couple small chips in the cutting edge. I started with 400, and am just now ready to use the 1500. I have been using a mixture of water, a little bit of Dawn, and a little bit of Windex. The lubrication from this mix is definitely not as good as what I was getting from SG; however, there is some lubrication, the stones have stayed fairly clean so far, and I haven’t had any issues with stone loosening.

If my experiments continue successfully, I’ll have my answer and a workable process.

 

As somebody with advanced terminal cancer, there will be dark days when I complain about things you say for no apparent reason. Please consider this my apology in advance for such times. There will be days that what I say is clearly wrong, making no sense: on these days I will often be argumentative. Please do not "let me slide" at such times, but rather call me out, point out what is factually wrong, and demand I explain my position. Please also consider this my apology in advance for such times.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Mark76, Josh

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